Megasquirt Progress, Main Board complete Options

[yarin]

Tonight I have completed building the main board for my MS II V.3.0 system. Thanks to those that have helped out. Once i'm all finished I will definitely post a complete "How To MegaSquirt a 914" website with pics and step by step. So far i'm still at the desk level. I've got 2.0 injection parts on the way.

I'll be using the following:

stock injectors
GM air temp sensor
stock fuel pump
summit racing manifold referenced fuel pressure regulator
stock injectors (i think 2.0s are on the way)
stock plenum / runners
stock CHT
MS Relay Board
Innovative WB02
High Current ignition driver
Stock dizzy with pertronix (hall sensor)
Stock Bosch Blue Coil
PWM Low impedence injector driver (no resistors)
Stock Cold start Valve (plan so far)
Stock throttle body with some junkyard TPS

Here is a pic of my board, took me a few hours a night every night this week. I took my time, double checked everything. So far so good!

I don't expect to have the system in the car for at least another month. I'm converting from carbs so I want to install steel fuel lines and clean some stuff up.

I'll be sure to post progress in the forums. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[yarin]

my converted workshop... temporary of course

[yarin]

shot of my soldering skills at the beginning.

[dinomium]

Yes, the injetors are the pretty green ones! But like I said, they have been sitting awhile!
I dont know if I could stand that much soldering...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Tom Perso]

Looks familar... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

(IMG:http://www.qtm.net/~persot/MS/assembled_ms_1.JPG)

If you're thinking about a junkyard TB, look into the Volvo 240 TB. It's got an adjustable idle by-pass, runs a Bosch TPS, and should fit onto a 2.0L plenum after welding on an adapter.

Big Picture.

(IMG:http://www.qtm.net/~persot/MS/DCP01431.JPG)

Tom

[Mueller]

I highly recommend testing the injectors "before" installing them....it might save a lot of time and grief from uneven flowing or poor flowing injectors, BTDT (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)


Fuel injector cleaning and testing (flow rates)

[yarin]

I was planning on sending my injectors out to RC Engineering. I've used them before.
http://www.rceng.com/service.htm#INJECTOR

However Cruzin Performance offers a seemily identical service (ultrasonic bath and flow test) for 1/2 the price!!

Thanks for the link! I'll be sure to check out Cruzin Performance.

[crash914]

Yarin,

You will like the version 3 system...

I just completed the upgrade to by 2.2 board with the MSII chip. I had a little issue with the cold start enrichment.

I LOVE the autotune!!! to get the cold start problem licked, I richened up the fuel map. Then I drove around...very heavy bogs and non running...

Leaned it out, manually smoothed out the map, now goes like stink!!

I like this better than megatune. Real time.

Now I have to adjust my rev limiter. I am using fuel cut out at 6000 rpm. Too Low!!

I rev so quick and am still pulling at 6000. I did a quick run through the gears just to see if I still had some pinging and stumbling. Gone!

Pulled very strong to 6000 in 3rd gear. I felt like I have got at least 1500 rpm more to play with. Felt like I could run at 6k all day! Can't wait for 7000K in 5th. should be scary fast....
herb

[Tom Perso]

QUOTE (crash914 @ Jan 29 2006, 11:12 AM)

I just completed the upgrade to by 2.2 board with the MSII chip. I had a little issue with the cold start enrichment.

The MSII chips is available now? When I looked to upgrade my 2.2 board, those chips were in short demand. I may have to look into that.

Where did you order the upgrade?

Tom

[yarin]

I ordered my stuff from http://www.diyautotune.com/

Excellent service, lightening fast turn out times for both orders I placed with them.

If you are going to build your own MS system I would definitely order from them. All of the parts came in bags, labeled with all the info, very easy to find. Prices are basically the same everywhere. Their kits include the housing, heatsink conductive paste, and all the little things you need.

Herb,

I can't wait to get this thing installed in my car. I've got injection parts on the way, one step at a time though. You car does sound scary fast, did you get it dynoed yet? 7K rev limit is high, i bet thats a thrill ride!

Tonight i'll start on the relay board and play some more with megatune. I just found a laptop I can use for tuning once its in the car. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

[crash914]

msII drop in chip is available...you can buy on line from Al Grippo. The address escapes me right now..

yea the car is fast...makes my bmw seem like it can't get out of its own way..

I do have double valve springs and a high torque cam... I can't think what would happen if I had a light flywheel...

[alpha434]

Bump.

Megasquirt?

[Mueller]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 30 2006, 10:21 PM)

Bump. Megasquirt?

megasquirt = do it yourself (stuff a bare PCB or buy a preassembled kit) fully programmable fuel injection (with spark on some versions)

I did my MS (megasquirt) install for about $250 bucks for parts, it replaces the factory ECU, then you need a new TPS, you can use the factory air temp sensor and CHT and injectors......

it's being run on just about everything from 2 cylinder harley engines to 426 Hemi engines....turbo, normally apserated, supercharged, you name it.....

for the price, it cannot be beat, period...

see MSEFI.com for more details

[alpha434]

ok. So... Outside of price. What kicks it's ass?

[Mueller]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 30 2006, 11:28 PM)

ok. So... Outside of price. What kicks it's ass?

you could pick just about any of the latest digital fuel injections systems around and they could be better or worse than the Megasquirt, it's all up to you , the tuner and installer of the fuel injection....a $4,000 MoTec won't do any better if you don't tune it correctly and do a nice clean install......

the whole idea of the MS is for the DIY'er and tweaker to modify to their hearts content since the software is open source (which you do not have to know or care about if you don't want to)

the MS is for those that want to learn and know how to search for the answers (pretty good web support and install manual)...if you need a fuel injection with a fancy name or phone support and a warrenty, then the MS is not for you.....

[alpha434]

Ahhhhhh. I see. So nothing. Hmmmm....

Replace my L-jet?

Hmmmm....

Build new engine?

Hmmmm....

With titanium?

Hmmmm.....

Eureka!

[Mueller]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 31 2006, 12:04 AM)

Ahhhhhh. I see. So nothing. Hmmmm.... Replace my L-jet? Hmmmm.... Build new engine? Hmmmm.... With titanium? Hmmmm..... Eureka!

replacing a working L-Jet with the MS on a bone stock motor won't really gain you anything except the chance to fine tune and monitor all of the sensors and inputs via a laptop...once you start tweaking the engine with a hotter cam or way bigger pistons/cylinders, then the MS is nice cause it'll be way, way easier to compensate for the new setup.....

most people use the MS for bigger/hotter engines or for easy turbo/supercharger installs....there are a few people running the MS on stock motors, I ran an MS on a 1.8 years ago when it 1st came out...no real reason to do so, I just felt like taking off the L-jet and playing with the MS...worked great

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

[alpha434]

Alright. The next objective for my top secret project B. Hmmm. The branch group is going to do just fine......

*where's the evil smilie?

[agrump]

Yarin,

I have a similar setup to what you are planning, MSII/v3. A few hopefully helpful notes, you will need a 1k bias resister for the pertronix to work cleanly. I found the bosch blue coil caused noise on my system but others seem to be able to use it fine. If you plan on doing fuel first and just get a signal from the coil then R57 will need to be increased, I think mine is ~750 ohms. I started like this and recently swtch to having MS control spark. I did not have to change R57 back to the original value, it worked fine. I did have to change the predictor algorithm to "last interval" to get a stable spark output. I'm using a locked 009 distributor by the way. DNHunt posted a great timing table on this board, it works great for me, better then my old mallory setup especially at high rpms.

Where are you planning on mounting the boxes? I have the relay box mounted near the battery on the firewall and the MS box under the arm rest. I mounted the relay board in the lowest slot of the box and cut holes in the cover so the relays would fit. The cover makes it look clean but if I ever have to access the fuses/wires on the side of the road it's going to be a pain.

I hope this is useful.

[yarin]

Hey Dean,

Someone on MSEFI forums used a 1.3K pulldown resistor for the signal of the dizzy, i was planning on doing the same. I haven't decided if i'm going to do fuel and spark first or just start with fuel. If I trigger off the coil do I need an Ed Capacitor and Wing Diode installed? I dont want to have to modify my board too much just to get dizzy trigger working for a few days.

Are you using points or petronix?

I will be mounting my relay box behind the drivers seat in the engine compartment. The MS box will go in the dash i think. It's a race car, so there isn't much interior.

I was thinking about mounting the relax board on the lowest position, but I worried a tiny bit about electrical gapping from the relay pins to the box since its so close. Did you buy the entire box with cover? My kit didn't come with a cover. You could consider filing the side mating surfaces of the top cover and not using the side panel screws. Instead use some type of removeable strap or even hinge the cover on the base.

I'm sure i'll have a bunch of questions for you. here are a few..

Are you using the stock fast idle solenoid? Did you configure your board for PWM for low impedence injectors? What did you do for warm up enrichment? Are you using the stock CHT sensor? Can I take a look at your easytherm values and warm up enrichment tables? Which TPS did you use? Did you tune with auto-tune and a WB02?

I had some free time at work today so I created a diagram of the entire MS job with WBO2. It's 95% there, i'm sure i'll have modifications to it once I start the installation. I might build a secondary terminal box for grounds and +12V lines, I also want to run a few extra lines in the relay cable and hook them up to a breakout box to make any future additions easy.

So check out my diagram, enjoy! It's a big file!! 500K, i had to bump up the res so u can zoom in and see the 6 point text. So once you download it zoom in to 100% to see all the fine stuff. I'm pretty happy with it so far, i'm sure it will be a great help once i start wiring.

LINK HERE - 914-MS2.JPG