 Drag Engine |
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| r_towle |
 Feb 1 2006, 11:44 PM
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#1
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Custom Member  Group: Members Posts: 24,584 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States 
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IF you were to build a drag beetle...
Would you use a type 4 or a type 1 motor? Why ,dont just say the bottom end is better, factor in cost and available parts... How big? I went to the cal-look web site www.cal-look.com and there are alot of different configurations on that site... Rich |
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| alpha434 |
Feb 1 2006, 11:49 PM
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#2
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My member number is no coincidence. Group: Members Posts: 3,154 Joined: 16-December 05 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 5,280 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I'm sure you could do it with whatever. Some guy wrote a book on drag racing a porsche 356. I saw a type 4 pushing a theoretic 1000hp on the cover of some VW magazine. I don't have a clue as to what they had to do to get it there. Twin turbo. That and bored to 3.oL. I don't know anything else about it.
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| john rogers |
Feb 1 2006, 11:51 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,525 Joined: 4-March 03 From: Chula Vista CA Member No.: 391 |
I'd use a type 1 because of the heads, they are much more efficient. At the 1/8 mile drags in San Diego I have seen a 1900 (0r so)CC type 1 bug with Weber IDA 48's and a shot of NOS beat big block Chevy's and Fords. It revved to 11,000 RPM and belched fire at every shift of the crash box. Anyways, the owner said it was good for one weekend and they would do new bearings.
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| Aaron Cox |
Feb 1 2006, 11:52 PM
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#4
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
everyone does T1's.... must be a reason....... |
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| McMark |
Feb 1 2006, 11:54 PM
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#5
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
I'd build a Type 1. Type IV is 'spensive.
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| Jake Raby |
Feb 1 2006, 11:57 PM
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#6
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Type 1- They have the HI RPM narrow powerband that is useful for drag racing applications... Also drag engines do not have to live long, so the benefits of a long living TIV are wasted...
BTW_ TI heads are not "More efficient"- they are a totally differently margined head that has characteristics for more HP than torque and thats what a drag car needs... The TIV is not a good drag racer, not until you slap on a set of my Billet heads and at the present they are not available to the public, only available on my complete "Superhero" engines... My new test engine has modeled at 280HP, I dropped the displacement from 2,980cc to 2771cc and expect to pick up 2,000 RPM in the top end and increase power from 235 as a 3.0 to 280 as a 2,771 through added efficiency and a better "Combo".... But this is a daily driver engine for the beetle- it's not a drag racer! I went down in displacement because as a 3.0 the engine made 240 lb/ft of torque and was done reving @ 5,600 RPM..... I decided to kill some of the torque and increasde HP with the new combo... |
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| sgomes |
Feb 2 2006, 12:14 AM
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#7
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Electric Member Group: Members Posts: 815 Joined: 6-May 04 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 2,029 |
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| tat2dphreak |
Feb 2 2006, 08:45 AM
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#8
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stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
type 1, you'll need to rebuild often, and the parts are cheaper and more accessible...
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| Mark Henry |
Feb 2 2006, 09:02 AM
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#9
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
I've built severial T1 drag engines, many part combo's and in the lower classes they can be built to last. Many of the cars do double duty as daily drivers and weekend warriors.
Again you have to watch for cheap junk parts, in the T1 world there is a huge amount of china junk. Even with the T1 you can get into mega bucks if your serious. You gets what you pays for. Your engine (and tranny,etc.) will be as strong as your weakest part. |
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| r_towle |
Feb 2 2006, 10:30 AM
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#10
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,584 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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so, what do you think is a good size...
It seems I can buy heads that are ready to go... Rich |
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| bd1308 |
Feb 2 2006, 10:35 AM
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#11
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Sir Post-a-lot Group: Members Posts: 8,020 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Louisville,KY Member No.: 3,501 |
my buddy has a 2110 type1 that he likes....
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) b |
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| Root_Werks |
Feb 2 2006, 10:46 AM
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#12
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,326 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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That is friggen cool! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) |
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| sean_v8_914 |
Feb 2 2006, 11:19 AM
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#13
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Chingon 601 Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541 |
build it to the rule book of the sanctioning race entity
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| r_towle |
Feb 2 2006, 11:32 AM
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#14
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,584 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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I agree, but there are no east coast drag clubs for beetles that I can find....so its IHRA specs,,which leaves alot of room...
I would prefer to build to the biggest NA spec class... But there is little beetle competition up here... So I thought it would be fun just to build a chevy/ford humiliator, for the local strips. Basically autox no longer scares me enough.. In order for track to be scary enough I would either have to build a dedicated 914, or loose my street setup in my 914...dont want to do that.. And I have this beetle sitting out there... So I thought, why not build a sleeper drag beetle... 1/4 mile or 1/8 mile spec,,,depends on the track. That would keep me amused for a few years...and then I have a cool beetle afterwards. Im thinking this config... 2162cc (84x90.5) Scat crank 5.7" H-beam rods C89 Scat camshaft, 0.576" lift with 326 degrees duration, 1.4 Scat rockers 44 x 38mm Competition Eliminator heads, fully ported , dual Chevy springs 9.3 CR. 44 IDF with 42 mm venturies MSD 6AL ignition, 1 3/4" stainless steel exhaust with a A1 2 1/2" stainless muffler Now this guy is getting low 11's in the quarter mile...at 118 mph and the motor is still streetable... mine has 44 IDF's (cause I already have them) he had 48mm IDA,s (which I can find if I need them) That is what I want...a barely streetable config..that is really built to drag... Rich |
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| Aaron Cox |
Feb 2 2006, 11:34 AM
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#15
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
go boost. only way to make monster power......
2332cc i think is the biggest type 1 ive seen, add a turbo and go from there (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) |
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| jhadler |
Feb 2 2006, 12:36 PM
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#16
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Long term tinkerer... Group: Members Posts: 1,879 Joined: 7-April 03 From: Lyons, CO Member No.: 529 |
Here in Colorado, there used to be a girl who'd show up to the Bandimere Drag Strip in a pink VW beetle, and absolutely shame the big block boys...
That thing was seriously fast... Ideal setup, rear engine... -Josh2 |
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| sean_v8_914 |
Feb 2 2006, 08:09 PM
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#17
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Chingon 601 Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541 |
only go beyond 82 mm type 1 stroke if you are an experienced builder. are you building it or someone else? are you experienced?
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| Jake Raby |
Feb 2 2006, 08:18 PM
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#18
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Here is your combo to the "T"... Dyno proven to 220 poniesON PUMP GAS by yours truly with all off the shelf parts!
2332cc 84mm CB crank CB 2665 rods (Hbeam 2" Chevy journal 5.5long) 94mm B pistons and cylinders CB wedgeport heads, flycut them to attain 10.5:1 CR with a .040 deck Web 86C+5 cam (Talk to debbie and tell her Jake sent you) Ceramic lifters from LN Engineering Manton pushrods (I can sell you these) CB 1.4 ratio rockers Weber 48 IDF or IDA carbs(40mm vents for the IDFs or 37mm for the IDA) Mallory unilite dizzy set to 28 degres full advance A-1 header system from Tiger with 1-3/4" primaries and a 3" Magnaflow muffler There is the whole bitch, buy it and bolt it together.... If you wanna run 110 octane plunge the heads to 12:1 and the engine will make a solid 240 pnies pretty easily. (I can't believe I just did that) |
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| r_towle |
Feb 2 2006, 08:33 PM
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#19
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,584 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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It type 1 jake...dont worry.
its the 10:1 that I was shying away from... Pump gas....I dont mind race gas for the drag.... But will that run pump around town.... Wow, just roughly priced it out. New heads, new case, new crank, new rods, all new less than 7k in parts...but lots of wow.. Rich |
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| Jake Raby |
Feb 2 2006, 10:33 PM
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#20
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Compression is your friend. That cam has 320 degrees of duration and bleeds a ton of CR dynamically...
I ran 10:1 CR with my 3 Liter TIV on pump gas and she cooled just fine and had plenty of power! Build it, drive it. Nothing is worse than a low compression, big cammed engine- they are impossible to tune, run like pigs and are a waste of effort. Bump it up, hear it thump! I can set you up with all those parts at a better deal than retail if you want- i still have my Type 1 hook ups from the old days! |
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