Motor Meister Rebuild, Not looking to start a Flame War, but... Options

[TROJANMAN]

Could someone please give me a mature answer on their reputation.
i am looking at purchasing a vehicle that had a '75 2.7 engine rebuilt by them. thanks

[Eric_Shea]

Jim Chambers can... with pics.

[Cap'n Krusty]

I can tell you honestly that Motormeister and it's ownmer anr NOT at all well respected in the So Cal Porsche repair trade. I know a person fairly high up in one of his major new part suppliers and they tell me he doesn't buy anywhere near the volume of new parts to support the number of engines he says he does. The Cap'n

[ArtechnikA]

Some love 'em, some hate 'em.
You have to know what you're getting into.
Check around for first-hand reports.
Ask them for what's *in* one of their rebuilt engines, and see of you are OK with that. (e.g. count the things explicitly described as "new" as opposed to some other word meaning 'used.') This must be a VALUE judgement...

if you are expecting a "factory re-manufactured" or "total overhaul" to "0-time" the engine, you will probably be disappointed unles that's explicitly what was contracted for. (it is -not- their normal product...)

I bought 2,7S engine described as running when removed from service (to upgrade to a 3,0) and it was not represented as nor do i expect it to be other than in core condition. i haven't opened it yet, so i donno what lurking horrors await. what i am expecting to see is a well-worn engine. if i do, in fact, encounter lurking horrors (broken or backyard-machined case, bad crank, obvious screwups...) i will document the post-mortem. soon.

meanwhile - pretty much - an engine is a lump, and i wouldn't reject an entire vehicle for the condition of its engine. especially if it's running and you can make the usual compression and leakdown tests, and check for pulled and/or broken studs, oil leaks, etc...

[Eric_Shea]

A certain magazine won't run their ads anymore... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Feb 21 2006, 10:31 AM)

Could someone please give me a mature answer on their reputation.

i have seen two of their engines, both were a disaster made out of used parts (supposed to be fresh rebuilds) ...

maybe brad can chime in here, i know he took pictures ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy

[TROJANMAN]

here's what the car is advertising: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

QUOTE

Over $12000 spent on a  Motor rebuilt in 2005 by Motormeister.  Case savers, ARP head studs, new P&C’s, Solex cams, all new bearings, cylinder heads rebuilt, all receipts in documentation.  Full OEM  oil lines and pipes, tank and engine tin.

[Ferg]

Get a PPI and have them do Comp/leakdown... that way you'll at least know what it is currently at.

Ferg

[Cap'n Krusty]

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Feb 21 2006, 11:01 AM)

here's what the car is advertising: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) QUOTE Over $12000 spent on a  Motor rebuilt in 2005 by Motormeister.  Case savers, ARP head studs, new P&C’s, Solex cams, all new bearings, cylinder heads rebuilt, all receipts in documentation.  Full OEM  oil lines and pipes, tank and engine tin.

So this engine has carbs? The Cap'n

[TROJANMAN]

dual webers. yes.

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Feb 21 2006, 11:01 AM)

here's what the car is advertising:

advertising and reality is not always the same. the two engines i have seen were advertised as fresh rebuilds with all new and shiny parts.
the customers paid for new parts, what they got was all used parts out of the big MM used parts bin ...

that's all i'm gonna say about it ...

your money, let us know how it turned out!
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) Andy

[TROJANMAN]

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 21 2006, 11:26 AM)

your money, let us know how it turned out!

it's a nice ride, but the MM raised an eyebrow, so i thought i would ask. i guess i am slightly, less, interested now. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

[Brando]

Gregor, I can give you my account firsthand.

In my mom's SC we wanted a rebuild. My dad chose MM, I chose a local that's reputable.

Let's say after almost a year of sitting at their shop it came back in December. First day after it had been parked... Ginormous Oel leak under the car. Rear Main Seal -- they didn't align-bore the case as they said they did (that's the only reason for a huge oil leak back there). The CIS still isn't calibrated properly. IMHO, $8,000 wasted when he could have gotten more for less from my friend. On our second visit (taking the car back for them to actually fix things) I asked for a tour of the shop and the foreman said "sure OK". Shelves and shelves and shelves of used P&Cs, cranks and rods. I look around and see shelves -- no machines. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) All their new parts are stocked on the walls in their office. What's really bad, is I heard from the machine shop they used to send their stuff to (Ollie's in Santa Ana) that they had a lot coming back because they opted not to do certain things, like line-bore the cases, polish cranks and have new valves or guides put in when they should have. Now MM is using another "locale" and only send stuff to the old shop when it's come back for problems.

But here's the thing... If you're going to call up MM and bitch at them, ask for the shop foreman. The girl at the desk is a real sweetheart and really isn't into cars the way the guys in the shop are.

[Brian Mifsud]

their website and paper ads used to explicitly state that they use used parts in their rebuilds (like pistons and cylinders). There was "justification" along with it as to why they did this.


In many engines (especially the old stuff), it's not uncommon to reuse pistons (with suitably sized cylinders), and its very common to reuse connecting rods. Of course, everything must be remanufactured back to Blueprint specs, otherwise it's just shadetree quality

[ArtechnikA]

The Porsche Spec Books are very clear on wear limits.
for items where you or i or a reputable shop would replace a used part, a cost-cutter will measure it and if it's not beyond the wear limit say "it's in spec - back in it goes." and technically, that is correct. but at the end of a "full overhaul" i'm looking for 200,000 mi -- not the point at which the most marginal component first reaches its wear limit.

example: valve springs. if i don't know an engine's history, i will have them on my 'replace' list, because i know there are going to be a few redline shifts in my car's future. "most" people don't drive their cars hard, so as long as the last guy didn't overrev it much, or very often, and the next guy doesn't either, a used valve spring will work "okay" for a long time.

[Ferg]

well since the motor in question has almost 7k put on it since the rebuild, pay for a damn PPI already (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) that way you'll at least know what shape it's currently in... We all know the MM rep, but since your really talking about a specific car/motor, open your wallet and pay for a PPI (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif)

Ferg

[TROJANMAN]

did i send you the info on the car? or did you talk to brant?(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

he had me thinking twice abut the FG flares.

[mudfoot76]

Given the somewhat shady reputation MM has, probably the best question to ask yourself is if you get the car and the engine turns out to be a grenade, will you have the $$ on hand for another engine? If not, probably want to step back in case that one explodes..

[brant]

I haven't talked to ferg....
but the PPI thing isn't a bad idea for verifying any motor.

brant

[TROJANMAN]

agreed. but i think you convinced me to find something else. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)