porsche 6, or 914 4, engine choice Options

[brokenmoped]

Jake -

That turbo kit still going to be $5500 for everything or are we going to expect a price jump? ::Crosses fingers::

-C

[Jake Raby]

Pricing has not changed for the "kit"...

The 5.5K buys MUCH more than a Turbo and some headers- it's everything to drop on top of the engine!

*914 DTM- Full kit
*T-3 Turbo (T-3/ T/4 Hybrid optional for guys that can handle big boost)
*Turbo headers- Full kit
*RAT EFI (individual runner T/B)with direct fire ignition including trigger mount and sensors already installed- Full kit
*Intercooler standard with the Hybrid arrangement

All sold as an engineered assembly ONLY- NO individual parts!

All you do is rip out the engine, rip off the tin and replace everything with what I give you.

So far we have gotten a tad over 150 HP from a 100% bone stock, 75K mile 2.0 test engine with this arrangement and that was only at 8 PSI boost. With some compressor changes this is sure to increase. That was on the second try!

As soon as I finish the Mighty Spyder project I'll be full bore on this through the end of the year.

[Dead Air]

Two questions for Jake just to stur the soup a little. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

Have you thought about working on any of the Corvair motors?
Are they type 4's with 2 pistons added? I know Airplane homebuilders would be all over something like that.
Are you concerned about running out of type 4 cores or chassis available? For exaple...

I haven't seen any threads lately about putting type 4's into a Subaru...
Just wondering.

[Jake Raby]

QUOTE

Have you thought about working on any of the Corvair motors?

The Corvair is the ONLY aircooled engine I have no desire to further my experience with- they are a lame effort by an American company to make something that can live without a radiator. I have worked on aircooled engines from Lycoming, Continental, Franklin, VW, Porsche(4 cam 547 through the 3.0-911) Pinzgauer and Puch- Out of all those the Corvair was the most screwed up of any! (I only lack building a Tatra engine to be complete)

QUOTE

Are you concerned about running out of type 4 cores or chassis available? For exaple...

Nope... By the time the supply dries up our wonderful government will more than likely have already banned gasoline engines- Or I'll be too old to care. At my present rate of consumption I have enough cores in my pile to last me for 17 years of future production and I just found 100 more in Florida that are being delivered next week.

Plus, I also do work on 4 cams and 356 engines as well. If the market won't support my efforts, or we run out of cores I'll go back to working on Turbine engines- I am still proficient with Safety Wire.

QUOTE

I haven't seen any threads lately about putting type 4's into a Subaru... Just wondering.

No you aren't- You are trying to start trouble and trying to piss me off first thing in the morning.

QUOTE

Two questions for Jake just to stur the soup a little.

You did that. This post is about a -4 or a -6 and I don't know why EVERY time these posts come up that I get dragged into them as seemingly the ONLY 4 cylinder builder!

Why the hell doesn't a 6 cylinder builder come here to stand their ground?

[Dead Air]

Sorry, really!!

I just think it's weird that so many people come here and they don't really like the 914. They'd rather have a Boxter, or an Elise or something like an MR2. So they hack and weld until it's not a 914 anymore. $4000-15,000 for a kick ass motor that drops right in?
"End of discussion" Ya know what I mean?
just my .02.
(I still need to get some parts from you Jake, No offense intended)

[tat2dphreak]

I'm not really taking any sides, but I think comparing one of Jake's KITS to the price of converting to a 6 is more accurate...

for the person of average mechanical skills would you rather:
A) assemble a type 4 with a kit jake put together, and have jake on hotline to help you over the phone...
or
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) convert to a 6, do the nessecary homework, find an engine and have it at the very least inspected by a good -6 mechanic, and figure out the rest for your self?

what -6 conversion can you do for 5 large? will you get 170 hp? will it take you less time to assemble an engine? or do a -6 conversion?

myself, I would have a tough choice, but lean towards the IV....

if we're saying a jake built 200+ hp turnkey for 10k, I may lean the other direction... 3.2 or 3.0... IMO part of the reason you would go with a 10k jake-built is if you do not want to mess with all the stuff needed for a -6... you paid someone to do all the WORK for you, instead of doing it yourself... I like to do some work myself with anything(only way a dumbass like myself can learn)

Jake's engines are not un-reasonably priced... price a custom built chevy crate engine... an engine I firmly believe anyone can rebuild, and the parts are easily found and cheaper... and the prices are still in the same range...

so, to the person who wrote started the thread: it comes down to how much work do you want to do, how much hp you want to end with, and how much $$$ do you have to spend...

[Jake Raby]

QUOTE

I just think it's weird that so many people come here and they don't really like the 914.

I absolutely agree....

Making a car into something it never was by drastic measures is not too smart to me either.

I own and drive a 914 for the same reason I do the same with my 912, all of my VWs and my Pinzgauer.

I think more people here should buy a Fiero...

But all the cars getting hacked up, make the cars that are not- worth more money everyday. One day that will matter and the guys who were the smart ones will be on top.

A good example is a 1954 Chevy Pick up that my dad bought new in 1954.... The truck remained (and still does) 100% stock all through the 60's and 70's when the big rage was dropping a set of Crager wheels and a small block V8 into the truck. His little truck was worth nothing then, but now he gets insane offers for it as it jujst sits in the yard 100% stock because all the hackers ruined the other trucks!

[JmuRiz]

Can't wait till the Mighty Spyder is completed...
To look at what that wild engine does AND to further the 914 turbo development. I've gone back and forth in my head a zillion times on what engine...and I think the turbo 4 is the way to go (for me).

[Jake Raby]

The Mighty Spyder is coming along nicely... The short block is done and the stage is set for a 260HP, 9,000 RPM normally asperated, Titanium rodded, twin plugged, direct fired, EFI'd beast to live! (it's sub 2400cc!)

He came by Tuesday to check it out- all the way from London!

The car is all finished, except he has to make a dry sump tank for it... It's a shame but he ended up having the body painted!

It'll be on the dyno in two weeks.

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 24 2006, 07:09 AM)

QUOTE I just think it's weird that so many people come here and they don't really like the 914. I absolutely agree.... Making a car into something it never was by drastic measures is not too smart to me either. I own and drive a 914 for the same reason I do the same with my 912, all of my VWs and my Pinzgauer. I think more people here should buy a Fiero... But all the cars getting hacked up, make the cars that are not- worth more money everyday. One day that will matter and the guys who were the smart ones will be on top. A good example is a 1954 Chevy Pick up that my dad bought new in 1954.... The truck remained (and still does) 100% stock all through the 60's and 70's when the big rage was dropping a set of Crager wheels and a small block V8 into the truck. His little truck was worth nothing then, but now he gets insane offers for it as it jujst sits in the yard 100% stock because all the hackers ruined the other trucks!

Jake, When you talk about six conversion you always talk about hacking up the car. What are you refering to? Having seen plenty of 914-6s I have seen very few that are "hacked". Aside from mounting an oil tank what hacking do you think is happening when somone converts to a six?

[Jake Raby]

QUOTE

in fact the more I think about it the 914's I see sporting Raby engines seem to be bigger hack jobs than many of the well done 6 conversions

Well..I don't do installations, nor do I work on vehicles... I provide an engine that is ready to be BOLTED into the car, what happens after that is out of my control.

Nothing needs to be cut, or welded, or fabbed at all.

Which cars have you personally seen that had my engines installed? Keep in mind that not every car that is advertised or "Said" to have my engine has it- only those with serial numbers that match my records do and there are aalot of imposters out there!

Most people that spend the money to buy my engine do very detailed installs.

[TonyAKAVW]

QUOTE

But all the cars getting hacked up, make the cars that are not- worth more money everyday. One day that will matter and the guys who were the smart ones will be on top.

This is assuming people who modify their 914s actually care about resale value. I think in many people's minds, resale value or collector value is at the bottom of their list of priorities with a 914.

QUOTE

I think more people here should buy a Fiero...

Whats wrong with modifying a cheap car to be a high performance car? The 914 is not really a high performance car by today's standards in its original trim. Not that its intended to be, but many many people feel there is nothing wrong with making a project out of a 914. They are cheap, smog exempt, light weight, mid-engine, and interesting looking. Fieros are not. Neither are MR2s, etc. Not everyone sees the appeal of driving a piece of pure nostalgia. There's nothing wrong with that, but its not everyone's desire.

-Tony

[Trekkor]

My "hacked" 914 is by far, my favorite car I have ever owned.

It was really fun as a FOUR.
Now I can't see it without the SIX. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

I'll throw this out to the crowd:
Anybody *EVER* do a SIX conversion, not like it and go back to a FOUR? Serious question...


KT

[ModPR3]

QUOTE (Dead Air @ Feb 24 2006, 06:37 AM)

I just think it's weird that so many people come here and they don't really like the 914. They'd rather have a Boxter, or an Elise or something like an MR2.

I love the 914, but i dont think there is anything wrong with improving on a great chassis. some times cars are just more fun with more power, some times cars are more fun all origional to be enjoyed like a fine piece of art. shelby made a fortune and now one of the most replicated cars known by taking a little sports car made by ac and dropping a american v8 and made a awesome car we know as the shelby cobra. i can see from all sides of everyone and most of you have good points. i just dont think anyone should say that there way is the only way it should be done. like the saying go whatever floats your boat. just my 2 cents.

[IronHillRestorations]

QUOTE (trekkor @ Feb 24 2006, 08:33 PM)

Anybody *EVER* do a SIX conversion, not like it and go back to a FOUR?

Hey Trekkor, that's my line!

[DNHunt]

This discussion always cracks me up. The car was designed for both engines. We have a choice and there isn't a wrong answer.

I stayed with a four cause that's the way the car came. I kept the numbers matching engine and I can have it back in in a weekend. That seemed like the right thing for me to do but if I hadn't had that motor I might have decided on a 6 conversion. In a perfect world I'd have 1 of each but, a six would cost me a wife and that's an easy choice.

By the way, the engine kit I got from Jake makes the car, the car it should have been from the factory. It's easy to drive around town and plenty quick.

Dave

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 24 2006, 05:07 PM)

QUOTE in fact the more I think about it the 914's I see sporting Raby engines seem to be bigger hack jobs than many of the well done 6 conversions Well..I don't do installations, nor do I work on vehicles... I provide an engine that is ready to be BOLTED into the car, what happens after that is out of my control. Nothing needs to be cut, or welded, or fabbed at all. Which cars have you personally seen that had my engines installed? Keep in mind that not every car that is advertised or "Said" to have my engine has it- only those with serial numbers that match my records do and there are aalot of imposters out there! Most people that spend the money to buy my engine do very detailed installs.

Any MASSIVE four install is going to be far from stock. People installing your engines are typlically running carbs from the pictures on this site. That means they are hacking out the stock fuel pump, hacking out all associated parts from the stock fuel injection, based on your reccomendations people are putting headers on these engines and hacking out the stock heat exchanges, most Raby installs I have seen have required oil coolers to be hacked into the car, etc. Hack hack hack.

Your freind,

Fiero Wantabe (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Jake Raby]

QUOTE

Anybody *EVER* do a SIX conversion, not like it and go back to a FOUR? Serious question...

Yes, a guy by the name of Paul Rankin comes to mind.... Email him at paulandbetsy@usa.com

He did this mid 2005 after his 2nd used six bit the dust and was gonna cost more to repair than my entire complete engine cost.. (repair it stock)

He bought a kit through the store and a used TIV to build it from off of Ebay.

email him, super nice guy.

QUOTE

I think you probably build great engines. However your endless attacks on six conversions appears to not be based on fact.

Thats odd, it seems that your endless attacks on the 4 are not based on fact either! (imagine that) have you ever installed one of my engines? Have you EVER installled a six? Have you ever done anything successfully except prove that you are a person that creates opinions from looking at pictures and observations based on other's opinions?
The net has created these types of people- experts through other people's experiences.

[DNHunt]

Grant

You did say most of his engines so don't take this as an attack. However, I don't have a cooler, I do run a header and I do run FI with most of the stock parts. I have all of the stuff I need to put the old #'s matching engine with D-jet back in the car in a weekend. In that respect, my install and choice of engines is kind of unusual. That can't be done with a six conversion.

The other thing I considered was I wanted to assemble this engine with my son and it was my 1st engine build. Jake offered a kit and did all of the planning. I got a really special time with my son.

My situation was unique so my solution to the /6 vs /4 question is also unique. Most people probably won't consider either of these points very important but, they led me to a hipo /4 and I'm happy with what I have.

Dave

[grantsfo]

Jake, you still havent answered the original question. What hacking are you refering to with a six conversion? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)