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> Ease of engine swaps, not costs, just lowest hassle
lapuwali
post Feb 23 2006, 07:17 PM
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Maybe this has been discussed to death, but I don't remember it recently....

Not having done any of these, but just explored options, I'd place the order roughly this way, increasing order of difficulty:

1. 911
2. Subaru four
3. Chevy V8
4. Buick V6
5. Rotary
6. Anything else that already has a KEP adapter kit for the 901.
7. 928 V8
8. Anything else

The criteria are: available parts and knowledge for doing the swap, what has to be fabricated, ease of fit in the car, ease of adapting the engine to the 914 (tuning, etc). Cost not a factor...

The 911 has been done so often you can find several people who can do them in their sleep.

I score the Soob ahead of the V8 only because you can get full kits for both, but the Subraru just fits the engine bay better than the V8. Given the fact that a carb'd V8 will run just fine, however, and most Soob engines require an ECU swap, may just tip the balance in favor of the V8. Hard call there.

I *think* you can buy mounts, etc for the V6, off the shelf, but there's no complete kit available (anymore).

While the rotary has been done, more than once, I don't believe there are any off-the-shelf parts for sale to help.

If you have to pretty much do all your own engineering because there are no other completed examples, then that's going to be the hardest, though I'd expect the 928 would still beat most other things on the difficulty scale...

Comments?
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ModPR3
post Feb 23 2006, 07:23 PM
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im curioius about the honda s2000 motor. i read some posts about it but dont know if anyone has done it, dont even know if it will fit in the engine bay of a 914. 9k rpm how much fun would that be.
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Mueller
post Feb 23 2006, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 23 2006, 06:23 PM)
im curioius about the honda s2000 motor. i read some posts about it but dont know if anyone has done it, dont even know if it will fit in the engine bay of a 914. 9k rpm how much fun would that be.

that's the point of the thread...anything can be done....it's just how easy or hard (money, time or talant or all 3)

any motor that is a straight 4 config. is going to be a tough fit....the 928 engine has got to be the largest outside dimensioned engine to be put into a 914...it has to rank as the most difficult and complex swap ever done (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) Rick did a great job !!!!
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TonyAKAVW
post Feb 23 2006, 07:28 PM
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I would say the V8 is less difficult than a Subaru, partially because of the sheer number of succesful V8 conversions. Also, the electronics for a Subaru engine swap is a huge hurdle for many. Whether you are using the stock ECU or not there's a lot to rewire, a lot to go through. A V8 with carbs is something a lot of people understand.

While there is a kit for the Subaru its not seen nearly as much use simply due to the fact its only been available for a year or so.

Also, there are no exhaust products available for the Subaru conversion. I'm not aware of the situation with V8s...

On the other hand, the V8 conversion typically requires a larger scope. The extra torque of a V8 often motivates people to upgrade transmissions, CV joints, axles, put in chassis stiffening, etc. BUT, all of these things have been done an awful lot.

So who knows. I think it will vary from person to person based on their abilities in electronics, mecahnics, etc.

-Tony
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914werke
post Feb 23 2006, 07:32 PM
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What about the GM Quad 4?
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Mueller
post Feb 23 2006, 07:34 PM
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for a non-type IV motor, I'd say a conversion to a Type I would be the easiest....not the most practical, but seems pretty easy....for the exhuast one could use what is used for the 550 kits I would think..........
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Mueller
post Feb 23 2006, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Feb 23 2006, 06:32 PM)
What about the GM Quad 4?

over-rated GM propaganda engine (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hide.gif)
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914werke
post Feb 23 2006, 07:44 PM
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Ok then, hears one for ya...a Honda GL flat 6 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)
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Rotary'14
post Feb 23 2006, 07:48 PM
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I know the SBC is one of the most popular engines out there,, and I know Ford has their equivelant. Aside from the Alien, I've only seen SBC conversions. Does Ford (or any other V-8) and 914 not go together well?
Anybody seen other non SBC conversions? (besides rick's car) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)


-Rob
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lapuwali
post Feb 23 2006, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 23 2006, 05:34 PM)
for a non-type IV motor, I'd say a conversion to a Type I would be the easiest....not the most practical, but seems pretty easy....for the exhuast one could use what is used for the 550 kits I would think..........

True, though I didn't include it since the primary question would be WHY?
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lapuwali
post Feb 23 2006, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE (Rotary'14 @ Feb 23 2006, 05:48 PM)
I know the SBC is one of the most popular engines out there,, and I know Ford has their equivelant. Aside from the Alien, I've only seen SBC conversions. Does Ford (or any other V-8) and 914 not go together well?
Anybody seen other non SBC conversions? (besides rick's car) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)


-Rob

The Ford has clearance issues with the distributor hitting the firewall. The Chevy V8 just barely fits w/o cutting, and RH spaces the engine/gearbox back 1.5" even so. The water pump has to be swapped out for a unit mounted on the side of the block (or an electric unit), too. It's really only easy because there's more than one full kit with instructions available.

Someone here is attempting a Lexus V8, but I have no idea on what their progress is, or to what lengths they've needed to go to make it work.
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BIGKAT_83
post Feb 23 2006, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Feb 23 2006, 09:44 PM)
Ok then, hears one for ya...a Honda GL flat 6 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

I've wondered about that too. It seems like a new 1800cc goldwing would make a great engine. I suspect that they would have plenty of torque. Might be kind of neat run it into a independent suspension rear end from miata and use the goldwing transmission

There's members here with a ford V8 powered car and also a 4cyl ford powered car.
I also know of a Honda powered 914 being built at high end pro shop that will be extra nice when its done.

Bob.......
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Mueller
post Feb 23 2006, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (Rotary'14 @ Feb 23 2006, 06:48 PM)
Does Ford (or any other V-8) and 914 not go together well?

nobody makes kit for the Ford motors.....

"most" people doing a conversion require or prefer a kit that'll make the conversion easier.....

You'll see more subaru conversions due to the renagade kit and if steve or anyone else makes one.....

make a kit for a Ford and I'm sure someone would buy one that couldn't do the fab work themselfs.....
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IronHillRestorations
post Feb 23 2006, 08:35 PM
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Carburated 2.2E six. IF (note big IF) you had ALL (note big all) the parts, pieces, and ancillaries, I'm going to say you could do a 6'er swap in a week. If you had all stock oil lines, and tank, factory 6 cooler (or factory style mod), it makes things much smoother. This doesn't include any aslongas', or ohmygawdIdidn'tknowrustwasthere's. The problem with ANY engine swap is you always get into much, much more. The Porsche air cooled flat six has been done so much, you won't be doing any Star Trek crap.
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ChicagoChris
post Feb 23 2006, 08:42 PM
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I would think the primary questions is how much are you looking for? 250bhp SOOBY, 350bhp V8, or is 190bhp enough.

One of Rabys engines would be good power and the extra engine cost is more then ofset buy not having to change the rest of the car. (brakes, hubs, flares, and on, and on.)

Both the Soob and the V8 have been done to death and both are cheap (relative term) But that much hp means lots of other mods.

I figure the choice is determined by how much speed you need. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

I am voting SOOBY
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lapuwali
post Feb 23 2006, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (ChicagoChris @ Feb 23 2006, 06:42 PM)
I would think the primary questions is how much are you looking for? 250bhp SOOBY, 350bhp V8, or is 190bhp enough.

One of Rabys engines would be good power and the extra engine cost is more then ofset buy not having to change the rest of the car. (brakes, hubs, flares, and on, and on.)

Both the Soob and the V8 have been done to death and both are cheap (relative term) But that much hp means lots of other mods.

I figure the choice is determined by how much speed you need. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

I am voting SOOBY

You're missing the point of the thread.

Changing fenders, axles, transaxles, brakes, wheels, etc. is all the same no matter what engine you choose. However, it's still going to be easier to install an SBC than it would be to install, say, a WRC turbo engine; yet they'll make the same amount of torque, and will break transaxles with equal ease, so both require the same amount of work to upgrade to a transaxle that will take the abuse. Yet with one, you can buy the parts off the shelf and install them fairly quickly, asking questions of people who've done several. With the other, you're entirely on your own, fabricating and engineering everything yourself.

So, ignore all the stuff other than getting the engine in the car and running, can anyone amend the list in the first post?
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neo914-6
post Feb 23 2006, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (Rotary'14 @ Feb 23 2006, 05:48 PM)
Anybody seen other non SBC conversions? (besides rick's car) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)


-Rob

look at the list in my sig... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

Audi V6tt/boxster gearbox going "in" next week. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif)
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andys
post Feb 23 2006, 10:11 PM
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This isn't directly in line with your question, but thought I'd drop this in. Better than a year ago, I had a phone conversation with Hobert Kennedy (of Kennedy Eng'g). He felt the best swap for a 914 was the 300ZX 195hp na motor. He felt it was a great match for both the trans gearing and strength. Motors are relatively cheap, and very reliable. They make the adapter and clutch/flywheel for the swap. Doesn't require a huge radiator. Someone did this swap, as I recall.

The Scooby swap is very interesting, especially if the radiator can be effective in the engine bay. Too bad the front drive gearboxes aren't common, as a complete motor/trans swap would be very tidy indeed. Modern electronics will always be a problem to deal with. I'm planning an LS1, but at least there's a lot of info on the net regarding electronics when doing a swap. FWIW.

Andys
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porsha916
post Feb 23 2006, 10:28 PM
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I have a Buick 215V8 with some special changes about 160-200hp, low weight, lots of low end torque, don't need a huge radiator. I didn't do the conversion, It could be done for a couple thousand. I am planning to starting my 215v8 conversion soon. I still need to finish the hood.
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porsha916
post Feb 23 2006, 10:30 PM
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I try to add the picture.


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