OT: Aamco nearly killed my dad!, send lawyers, g_ns, and money!!! Options

[jhadler]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif)

So, yesterday, my dad takes his car into Aamco to get an estimate for repairing his A/C system (I know... I know... I've told not use them, but he always was treated well there, so he keeps going back). They tinker around with the car, give him an absurdly high estimate, and he goes home (15 minute drive)....

30 minutes later, his neighbor is pounding on his door screaming and waving her arms... The car is engulfed in flames right next to the house!!!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)

Because they live in a rural area of the mountains, the 911 call doesn't get a real fire truck there for around 15 minutes. Meanwhile, handheld fire bottles, shovels of dirt, and ultimately, the local volunteer fire truck (200 gal water with 2000psi foam unit) managed to get the fire controlled, but not out. It wasn't untill the pros arrived that the hood was peeled back and the car was soaked down with the big hoses.

The car is completely gutted, the side of the house is singed, but thankfully (miraculously) did not catch fire.

Now begins the inevitable legal go-arounds with insurance companies. I'll just say one thing, if they don't get right out in front of this and offer up a nice big fat check and a HUGE "We're so sorry":worship:(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif), then screw the lawyers and money, just send... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif)

So, any insurance lawyer types have any suggestions? I love my Dad, but neither he nor my Mom have the "teeth" to go toe-to-toe with insurance companies.

-Josh2

[Aaron Cox]

what was the cause of the fire?

how do you know it was aamco's fault?

[jhadler]

Well, I will admit that there's a -remote- chance it was entirely random. But the timing is waaay to close to more than just coincidence.

That the car was already fully involved less than an hour after driving it away from the shop, pretty much implies that whatever started it, started either upon starting up at the shop, on immediately upon arriving home.

The car was in excellent condition, with only 100k miles on it. It wasn't a beater...

Unfortunately, there's no evidence left to indicate one way or the other. The car is toast. Burnt toast...

-Josh2

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (jhadler @ Mar 10 2006, 11:55 AM)

Well, I will admit that there's a -chance- it was entirely random. But the timing is waaay to close to more than just coincidence. That the car was already fully involved less than an hour after driving it away from the shop, implies taht whatever started it, started either on the way home, on immediately upon arriving home. The car was in excellent condition, with only 100k miles on it. Unfortunately, there's no evidence left to indicate one way or the other. The car is toast. Burnt toast... -Josh2

just my opinion here.....

find the source - then assign the blame....

proof beyond reasonable doubt (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[MattR]

What in the ac system could have caused an engine fire? Are the fuel lines close to the AC lines in the engine bay? You'd have to do your research to see if its possible they could have knocked off a fuel line while inspecting the AC...

[jhadler]

The fire department investigator is coming out to look at the remains. But really, it's been BBQ'd, soaked, and now snowed on. I don't know that an ignition source will be easy, or even possible to find. I looked all over the engine bay (as much as could) yesterday, and couldn't find a single spot that seemed to be heated more than any other spot.

Cars almost never just spontaneously ignite. Something has to cause the ignition. The car has been running fine, has not been overheating, or smelling of anything.

I'm not a professional, but it sure seems like more than just coincidence to me...

-Josh2

[dlo914]

87-91' Toyota Camry, from the looks of it. It's prolly a 4 banger 2.0L FI. Check up on the web on fire hazards and similar situations. And then compare your situation to the others and search for the similarities.

[jhadler]

'89 V6...

-Josh2

[grantsfo]

I had a freind that had an electrical fire in a 91. The car had faulty radio or something? It was recalled by Toyota. You may have somone with deeper pockets if thats the case.

[dlo914]

we've had electrical problems w/ our 88' camry (inline 4). The source came from rain seeping into the trunk and baking the tail light wiring. From there the shorts and baking continued all the way from the back of the car evetually to the front. Now the only things that work on the car are the front headlights on lowbeam, the rear lighting, brake and turn signal lights, automated seat belts, and the wipers. That's after i had my cousin mickey mouse direct power to those certain vital things. Things that dont work include: the front turn signals, high beam, radio, and one of the rear automatic windows. Other than that the car is still running strong w/ 170k+miles. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[914-8]

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 10 2006, 10:57 AM)

QUOTE (jhadler @ Mar 10 2006, 11:55 AM) Well, I will admit that there's a -chance- it was entirely random. But the timing is waaay to close to more than just coincidence. That the car was already fully involved less than an hour after driving it away from the shop, implies taht whatever started it, started either on the way home, on immediately upon arriving home. The car was in excellent condition, with only 100k miles on it. Unfortunately, there's no evidence left to indicate one way or the other. The car is toast. Burnt toast... -Josh2 just my opinion here..... find the source - then assign the blame.... proof beyond reasonable doubt (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

Not quite.

The burden of proof in a civil matter is not "beyond a reasonable doubt."

It's just a "preponderance of the evidence." I.e., 51%.

There's also the doctrine of res ipsa loquitor. That is, you can assume (to a degree of the requisite 51% to establish liability) that a person's injury was caused by the negligent actions of another if the accident was of the type that normally would not occur unless someone was negligent.

An example - you pay a mechanic to replace all of your fuel lines. As you are driving off the lot, you suddenly smell fuel, see it spurting out of the sides of the hood, and burst into flames. Is going to be a decent res ipsa argument there.

This is a similar situation, depending on exactly what kind of work they did on the car. The car drove for many, many years and 100,000 miles without catching on fire. AAMCO worked under the hood, an hour later the car bursts into flames from under the hood.

It would be better to do some kind of investigation to try to determine and pin down the cause, of course. But paying an expert $5000 to do an analysis on a $4000 car probably doesn't make sense.

I'd report it to your own insurance, see if it's covered. If it is, they'll pay you off, you'll subrogate your claim to them, and they'll pursue AAMCO on their own dime if they think it's worth it.

If they don't cover and you are satisfied that their failure to cover is justified (the incident isn't covered by your policy), then I'd definately make a claim against AAMCO just based on what you know. As you say, it's more than just a coincidence. If they don't pay, I'd file a small claims action. I think you have at least a 50% chance of prevailing in small claims, particularly if the work they did involved touching or removing anything related to the fuel system.

[jhadler]

Okay, I vented. My head's cooler now...

I'll wait 'till the fire investigator makes his evaluations.

Still... it's pretty tight timing to be just coincidence. But I guess stranger things have happened....

Thank God that my Dad wasn't -in- the car when it caught. And thank God that no one, and nothing else was damaged...

A week ago there was a wildfire a few hundred yards away from their house....

Two dodged bullets in less than a month...

-Josh2

[Eddie Williams]

wow, he must have slept in a holiday inn express last night!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[BMartin914]

Holy crap Josh!

I'm glad your dad and his property was okay (barring the BBQ'd car of course).

Where does your dad live?

[messix]

they could have moved fuel or power steering lines in their inspection. might have made contact with belts and wore thru causing leak. might not be documented.

[jhadler]

Sunshine canyon. 4 mile fire dept was on the scene quickly, but the local IH scout with the foam machine was the key to mitigating the damage to jsut the car... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif)

-Josh2

[Seagrave]

The fire investigator should be able to give a reasonable model for how the fire started. Unless the overhaul was done by Neandrathals, the foam, water, snow or whatever should not make a difference. Something might have been busted loose (fuel lines, etc). If it is electrical, it will be a little more difficult since most of the wiring will have the insulation burned off after the fire burned for so long. Still, give the local investigator a chance. He should also be asking the neighbor what she saw, where was the smoke and flame, etc.

[stock93]

I make sure to tell everyone I know not to go to aamco. They do not honor their warranty. I've experienced this personally. They also didn't put on my rear trans mount on my 87 blazer when they did a clutch.

John

[dlo914]

nowadays it's either do it yourself the right way or find someone or place that's trustworthy enough to do the work if you're gonna pay for the work done. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

[mudfoot76]

I've had two friends experience car fires, and in both cases it turned out to be basically random failures. One was a Plymouth Breeze - he was parallel parking, heard a sound from the front of the car, looked and smoke was pouring out everywhere, then it burst into flames. Turned out to be bad electrics. The other was in a Crown Vic police car (interceptor spec), and again, bad wiring. The guy in the Vic also happens to be on the local Volunteer FD, and sees car fires quite frequently. Most of the time it is started by something electrical shorting out...

Luckily in all cases, nobody was hurt. I'm glad your family didn't suffer anything greater than the loss of a vehicle.