cold air induction?, ricers benefit would type iv or a six? Options

[G e o r g e]

this maybe a stupid ??? , but if temp. has everything to do with HP in an air cooled engine wouldn't this improve preformance? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)




George

[Porcharu]

Yes, I think it's something like 1% power gain for every 10 degree temperature drop.

[alpha434]

The problem is how to cool it to get an adequate boost?

Exotic chemical based systems? Use an intercooler in conjunction with CO2? Or Frion? Keep in mind that flow rate is also a problem.

[G e o r g e]

i was thinking about the simple AEM systems they have that just relocate the air intake out of the engine bay.



George

[Dave_Darling]

It does seem to help. Demick (member on this BBS though I haven't seen him post in a while) did some testing, and he figured it was worth a few HP to route cold outside air directly to the intake on his 2056cc motor. The engine bay--particularly the middle where most 914s draw their air from--is quite warm.

The real question is, where do you get the cold air from? It needs to be somewhere that is fairly well sheltered from rain, debris, dust, etc.

Demick finally tried simply flipping a stock air cleaner around so the snorkel pointed off to the side of the engine bay. He said it worked almost as well as his downspout ducting, and was much easier.

--DD

[G e o r g e]

QUOTE

Dave_Darling Posted on Mar 24 2006, 11:22 PM The real question is, where do you get the cold air from? It needs to be somewhere that is fairly well sheltered from rain, debris, dust, etc.

i was thinking with all of the heating equipment removed, thru the longs and place filters behind front bumper.
i know it would be alot of work, but it wouldn't be that bad working on a bare tub. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

George

[effutuo101]

all of my heater stuff is removed. I should be able to build a plenum and route everything from the grill on the hood straight into the engine bay. Maybe I will give it a try when I go to replace my hood...

[Rand]

I remember a thread a while back... a guy ran air tubes through the longs, and put the intake under the fresh air grill. He did a nice job and had some pretty solid stats to back his efforts.

If you didn't mind cutting the body sheet metal, it seems like putting a duct in the front of the rear fender just behind the door would be logical. All the modern mid-engined cars have a grill there.

I took the easy route... my filter is just under the engine lid grill with the rain tray out. Works nice. Fab a half round shield to mount just off the filter so it can be rotated... a rain shield above for winter, or below for a heat sheild.

[Jake Raby]

The benefits are HUGE! According to the rest of the climate the benefits can be even bigger.

Yesterday I was able to observe a 6 HP gain across the board from a 10 degree cooler intake charge. This is why 95% of all new cars have a fresh air intake right from the factory as the colder air charge also burns cleaner for a more efficient engine.

I have been working on something I "invented" that may help control air ntake temperatures year round to keep the charge warmer in the winter at start up and colder the rest of the time, thats what I was playing with yesterday so it's funny that this came up!

[grantsfo]

Cryo2 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Cryo2 website

[Jake Raby]

Not even close to my idea... It gives a similar effect though

[bd1308]

I did something like this, and was drawing air from the left side grill on the drivers side.

throttle gives more zip when pressed down sooner, but at WOT it lags like a dog...sounds LOUD tho.

probably my exhaust slowing things up or something....

b

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 25 2006, 08:38 AM)

Not even close to my idea... It gives a similar effect though

Yes Jake, but can your idea do this? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:http://www.designengineering.com/images/photogallery/236_sized.jpg)

[alpha434]

Yeah, Grantsfo

That's EXACTLY what everyone needs. MORE smoke coming out of their 914s.

Sheesh! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Demick]

What DDD said....

914 Cold Air Intake

[Jake Raby]

We have recently been testing the effects of phonelic materials that have near zero heat transfer to be used for intake manifold to head gaskets as well as carb/manifold gaskets.

The benefits of this has been huge as it keeps throttle bodies cooler, plenums cooler and runners cooler. The data logger aith 8 thrmocouples in place on my test car has already seen a carb temp near 40 degrees cooler, that means cooler air and cooler fuel being introduced into the engine, both of which are huge power makers.

These will be released in May- they REALLY work, especially with the New Genaration heads because they allow port work that are otherwise not a possibility..

[Maltese Falcon]

Definitely easier to bring cold air to the filter source. If you had to relocate the filter into a cold air source , you need to snake it out of the eng bay with min 2.5" preferably 3.0" OD alum tubing. This would be a task--but do'able. 2" tubing is much easier to route in our cars, but can't flow the cfm needed.
Here is a crude cold air ducting that I ran in the 80's on the 3.0 biturbo, boost cooled by methanol inj. so no intercooler. It simply took in cold air off the side of the sail panel and dumped it into the air filter area. I've seen some MR2's with spec-made intakes that don't look too bad.
Hey, that's DE instructor Jeff Erickson in there (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)
Marty

[Jeff Nelson]

I was impressed by the study that Demick did. I'm glad DD pointed it out. Related to this is the work done by this guy:
http://members.rennlist.com/chuxter/TempTests.htm
The scoop he came up with is attractive but looks like a fair weather solution.

The experiments that amateurs like Demick or Charlie (chuxter) do are straighforward but take time, equipment and are tedious. We all benefit from their work.

[Jake Raby]

Interesting... I have no idea how advancing the timing would have decreased oil temps, that big of a change should increase oil temps by quite a bit.

I'd also like to know what instrumentation he was using to measure a 1 degree variance accurately, even my data acquisition equipment has a +/- 2.5 degree range.

The duct work that was done is impressive

[Jeff Nelson]

Here are the specs for the instrument that chuxter used:

The OMEGA® HH501DK is a rugged, easy to use thermometer with 4 standard miniature connector inputs. It accepts K type thermocouple probes and covers ranges from -50 to 1300°C (-58 to 1999°F). It also provides differential temperature measurement readings of T1-T2, T1-T3, T1-T4, as well as individual readings of the 4 inputs.

Specifications
Temperature Range: -50°C to 1300°C (-58 to 1999°F)
Input: Type K thermocouple
Accuracy:
±(0.3% rdg + 1°C) -50 to 1000°C
±(0.5% rdg + 1°C) 1000 to 1300°C
±(0.3% rdg + 2°F) -58 to 1999°F
Display: 3 1/2 digit liquid crystal display (LCD) with maximum reading of 1999
Polarity: Automatic, positive implied, negative polarity indication.
Overrange: (OL) or (-OL) is displayed
Zero: Automatic Low Battery Indication: visual indicator is displayed when battery voltage drops below operating level.
Measurement Rate: 2.5 times Operating Environment: 0 to 50°C @ <70% RH
Storage Temperature: -20 to 60°C, 0 to 80% RH with battery removed from meter
Accuracy: Stated accuracy @ 23°C ±5°C <75% relative humidity. (accuracy specification does not include type K thermocouple probe accuracy)
Dimensions: 195 x 92 x 53 mm (7.7 x 3.6 x 2.1")
Weight: Approx. 250 g (9 oz) including battery

If l interpret this correctly then the accuracy is similar to the instrumentation that Jake is using. Resolving a 1 degree change with any confidence would be difficult. You can't argue with a 30 degree change but that last improvement due to a timing change does seems questionable.