Any one have trouble w/ KEP pressure plates?, Mine won't release all the way??? Options

[wbergtho]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) My KEP 240mm Stage 1 pressure plate is not releasing and I've checked all the obvious things like a broken spot weld on the Boden tube (firewall & attachment by shifter), pedal box bushings, clevis, clutch cable,...etc. All the these items are great. I watched the Boden tube while actuating the clutch and it is still. The clutch won't release enough to allow gear selection while the engine is running. With the engine off, I can select all gears no problem (brand new gearbox). The car ran well and the clutch seemed to function properly for about 200 miles...then it quit releasing all the way...and found myself double clutching & matching revs to get it home. I then tightened the cable thinking it must have stretched under the strain of the KEP pressure plate..and it still won't release. I then used the "cave man" approach to determine whether the pressure plate will release manually or not. I disconnected the clutch cable @ the trans and slid a long pipe over the lever arm and cranked it over to it's maximum travel...had a friend hold it there while I got in the car (up on stands)...I fired it up and checked to see if it was released entirely and it was. It shifted into all gears properly with engine running. My question is...WHY can't I get enough clutch cable travel to actuate the pressure plate entirely...when it WAS working flawlessly for 200+ miles??? I'm starting to think that there may be something wrong in the disc, or pressure plate broken or cracked diaphram, or maybe the pilot bearing has failed causing the main shaft to spin with the engine? I won't be sure until I take everything apart and inspect these parts. Can anyone think of any thing else I may be overlooking? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

Thanks,

Bill

[iamchappy]

Did you purchase there throw out bearing with the pressure plate, it is different than the stock one.
I have ground a little material from the lever area on the transmission case to also give it a longer throw.

[bondo]

Have you rebuilt your pedal cluster with the weltmeister kit? If so, there's your problem. Get an oem pin for the clutch pedal to shaft mount and you'll likely fix it.

[Thorshammer]

Is the clutch release fork cup worn out, or is the ball in the case loose or incorrectly positioned, many times i have used a small shim to get the proper travel for the release bearing. Either of these problems will cause a lack of release. Neither has anything to do with the Pressure plate. But I would check the installed height of the PP against a stock unit.

Erik Madsen

[drive-ability]

I have a 930 gear box and a KEP pressure plate as well. Are you sure the fork etc isn't bent a bit? It takes a lot of force to move that pressure plate. Having said that I did have a problem with my first KEP. I was told the internal pivots were missing??? The plate was repaired free of charge. My problem was chattering, real hard pedal and the engage and disengage points were so close together it was hard to modulate engagement.

[wbergtho]

As far as I remember, KEP sold me was a stock 930 T.O. Bearing that fits into their pressure plate. The fact that it quit releasing after it was working properly lends me to believe something failed in the pressure plate or the fork that actuates the T.O. bearing. Anyone ever see a clutch fork fail?

Bill

[wbergtho]

I haven't pealed everything apart yet. I'm pissed that I will have to do this...as I just put it all together and poured oil in it and topped off the cooler and diff pump. Maybe I'll just slide it back far enough to get a look inside and see if the diaphram has a crack in it somewhere or if the fork looks fucked up. I have had so many damn prblems with KEP and their pressure plates that if I find anything wrong with this one...I'll ship it back for a refund + shipping! This would be the 5th time I've sent a new PP back to them to have it fixed! I'll buy a Centerforce from Patrick...anything but KEP! I guess I should be certain before I slam them...but their record with me has been absolutely dismal. Great customer service...but shitty quality control.

I'm about to go out into the garage and find out now.

Bill (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

[drive-ability]

Bill,
I must agree with your easement of KEP, surely I am not saying anything else but I had my diaphragm crack and sent it to be repaired. They did it free of charge, I then still had trouble with the clutch operation. I talked to Scott at Renegade and he suggested sending everything to KEP for a look over. It was then the missing pivots was discovered. That didn't sound good to me at all. So far so good on this one. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif)

[wbergtho]

Drivability,

I'm glad to here it's working fine now. Could you describe the symptoms of your cracked diaphram to me? It may explain why I was "getting it all" and then suddenly "not Getting it all". I assume if one or two fingers of the diaphram cracked...you could still manually release the pressure plate like I did with a long pipe. It would take more travel to achieve the release...know what I mean? Was Yours cracked in two pieces or just a cracked line on a finger???

Bill

[drive-ability]

QUOTE (wbergtho @ Mar 29 2006, 09:03 PM)

Drivability, I'm glad to here it's working fine now. Could you describe the symptoms of your cracked diaphram to me? It may explain why I was "getting it all" and then suddenly "not Getting it all". I assume if one or two fingers of the diaphram cracked...you could still manually release the pressure plate like I did with a long pipe. It would take more travel to achieve the release...know what I mean? Was Yours cracked in two pieces or just a cracked line on a finger??? Bill

Mine was cracked in one place and my symptom was huge chattering. Uneven clamping and the petal was not as hard to push down. I know the stroke needed to disengage the clutch is short may be 3/4 of an inch in the bell housing. I would just make sure its moving enough outside the trans. I think the fork which sit around the T/O bearing is pined through the shaft, so if it failed you wouldn't have anything. That part of the trans looks to be really strong and not likely to brake. My fork that sits outside is around 6 inches long and it needs to pull about 1 - 1/4 inch to disengage. I can see the T/O barring etc with my trans just disconnected a small amount. I would take a look at whats going on. I know how much work this is, I had my trans out 3 or 4 times trying to trouble shoot my clutch issues. Let us know what you find.

[byndbad914]

Bill,

I had a KEP heavy duty PP years ago when my 914 was a daily driver (stock 4 banger and 901 trans) and I got about 6 months out of it and some of the "fingers" bent in one night and I couldn't engage the clutch completely, so I just drove home on back streets in 2nd gear (as that is what I could push start it in if I had to stop (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) ). At that time, I just pitched it and went back to stock because the pedal effort would even break Welmeister cables.

Now, I have their 930 aluminum PP in the car and at this point have my fingers crossed, and my wallet as well. I show some chattering already (with a stock disk, not kevlar or anything that likes to chatter) with only 5 or 6 track days and some glazing on the outer 1" of diameter. Not too happy right now. The pedal effort is BRUTAL with that PP, but I need good clamping for the torque (as you would also need).

Do you have an early, short bellhousing 930 or the later longer bell trans? I have the later one - if you know of a good alternative to KEP for a pressure plate - or anyone reading this thread - let me know. I may end up sending this puppy back at this point. I have yet to go full throttle on mine, so if it already slips and chatters, f*** that!

[wbergtho]

Hey Tim,

How's your project? My trans has been shortened to the 76/77 early specs. Did you have to change the length of the lever arm @ the pedal box to give you extra cable travel necessary to engage/disengage? Are you using the KEP stage 1 or stage 2? Mine is a stage 1 and I am told by the Kennedy people that coupled with a stock disc, it will take 550 ft pds of torque. I am at about 470 so feel I'm OK there. We'll see. My pedal effort is so huge...I afraid my left leg will break under the strain! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif)

As far as KEP taking your PP back...I know they will refund you your money...but they would obviously rather fix it and send it back...Only thing is...I'm F____G sick and tired of sending shit back and forth to them. I"VE DONE IT 5 TIMES ALREADY! Plus a flight out there once. I wouldn't blame you if you just demanded your cash back. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

I have read the threads on hydraulic clutches and am starting to reconsider whether to proceed with one. I will only go that route if i know the pedal effort will decrease BIG TIME...Otherwise, I'll just live w/ a cable. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

Rock on, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

Bill

[byndbad914]

QUOTE (wbergtho @ Mar 30 2006, 05:31 PM)

Hey Tim, How's your project? Are you using the KEP stage 1 or stage 2? Mine is a stage 1 and I am told by the Kennedy people that coupled with a stock disc, it will take 550 ft pds of torque. I am at about 470 so feel I'm OK there. We'll see. My pedal effort is so huge...I afraid my left leg will break under the strain! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) I have read the threads on hydraulic clutches and am starting to reconsider whether to proceed with one. I will only go that route if i know the pedal effort will decrease BIG TIME...Otherwise, I'll just live w/ a cable. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) Rock on, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif) Bill

project is moving along slow but sure.

I don't have a cable - I went straight to hydraulic. It is possible to tune pedal effort a bit with that setup - but it requires using a new master each trial to do it (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) The smaller the master, the easier it is to push the pedal, but the more pedal travel it takes to get the same displacment at the slave cylinder. I used the recommended .750" master, but I do have .700" and .625" for the brakes (.7 front .625 rear), so I am thinking that once the pedals are mounted in the car (hopefully in a couple of weeks) I want to try the setup with the .7 and .625 and see how much easier v. how much further I have to depress the pedal to get engagment.

Right now, I had a short pedal throw which is nice for racing, but very tough to modulate say around the pits - kinda like an on/off switch, so the smaller master may be nice.

Here is a shot of the Tilton triple pedal assembly I have. Now it comes painted all black which is way nicer looking - of course, that came out about 4 months after I got mine, rat bastards. You will have about a grand in this thing though after all the MCs and such and will need to cut and make a pedal box (look on this forum right now, Terrence posted a question "is the center tunnel structural" or to that effect - see what I mean).

As for which clutch I have, it is the stage 1 as well - same story, I have 438 lb-ft torque, so supposed to be fine, but looking at my disk (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[Andyrew]

My vw clutch package required the use of a clutch extender to extend the throw from KEP..

Also, drove on the given TO bearing for about 400 miles, and it gave up on me.. threw in the right one (thanks to KEP they had one...) and its been dreamy ever since... the "300"tq clutch package is holding 315+ tq VERY fine...