OT: European Cars, Are any better than they use to be? Options

[Allan]

My wife is going to for sure have to sell her car prior to our move to Turkey and she has been looking at the auto market to see what is available.

We are going to stay away from any of the eastern european manufacturers but she has seen a few of the Pugeot, Citroen (both French), Alfa (Italian), and Rover (British) cars that have the styling she likes.

Does anyone have any knowledge of these cars as far as reliability, performance, safety, etc?

I'm leaning toward either a Volvo S40 or S60.

One consideration is that the more common the car the better the likelyhood of finding competent mechanics.

Has reliability gotten any better?

[TINCAN914]

Allan,

For what it's worth, I would stay with Volvo for my money, I believe that your money would be best spent. My .02.. I like the S60, the 40 looks a bit to short in the back.

[Dr Evil]

Aw C'mon, S K O D A! There has to be at least 1,000,000 mechanics that work on them (becasue they need it!)

[lapuwali]

Last time I took a driving tour of Europe, I rented a Renault Clio, and found it to be a great car. Very comfy, handled decently (very French, though, lots of body roll), and even the 1300 version would do 160km/h. You have to take into account gas prices there, so I'd strongly consider a B class car with a sub 1500 engine. There are a lot of nice cars you can't buy here. The other thing that struck me was how cheap a new French A or B class car was compared to prices in the US at that time. The base models were under US$10K. This was 7-8 years ago...

[Allan]

The other thing that struck me was how cheap a new French A or B class car was compared to prices in the US at that time. The base models were under US$10K. This was 7-8 years ago...
[/quote]

Both French and British cars seem to be very inexpensive new. I don't know it it is because they have some type of non-tariff agreement or they just suck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[lapuwali]

The French cars don't suck, I can say from experience. The British basically don't make cars anymore...

[Allan]

The British basically don't make cars anymore...
[/quote]

Who makes all of these?

[lapuwali]

Parts of Rover were bought up by BMW some time ago. Other parts ended up in the hands ofa private investment firm, which botched the job, and MG/Rover basically closed its doors a few months ago. Vauxhall is Opel is GM. Ford is Ford. Jag is Ford. Aston Martin is Ford. MINI is BMW. Rolls is BMW. Bentley is VW. I forget who owns the Land Rover brand, but I believe it's German.

TVR, Morgan, Noble, and a few other very small volume manufacturers are all that exist anymore, and none of them make their own drivetrains, just chassis.

Rover was the last. Morris/Austin/MG became BMC in the 1950s, then Leyland Group in the 60s, Triumph was brought in in the 70s, then the whole thing collapsed in the 80s.

[Allan]

Interesting stuff. I knew none of that.

Well, I guess I may stay from the British stuff. Don't know how scarce. parts may become

Thanks for the info.

[Eric Taylor]

What about good old VW? They make some great cars in europe and there diesel motor is out of this world reliable and efficient. When I was in paris 2 yrs ago everything was diesel as gas was 4 dollars a gallon. If it were me I would look at the new golf as a TDI or and Audi A3 TDI . Both great cars with great milage and from what i remember the Audi in europe is not really that much more than the VW.
Eric

[lapuwali]

Regular gasoline was $6/US gallon in Paris 6 months ago...

Diesels are much more common in Europe, and getting diesel at the pump is far easier. It's also heavily subsidized, and thus much cheaper, than gasoline.

The VW lineup in Europe is the Lupo, the Polo, the Golf, and the Passat in size order (A, B, C, D class). Yes, Europe as size classes, and the Golf is in the middle range there. There's an E class, too, which is bigger than a Passat. About the size of a Mercedes E class (hence the name). VW considers their A and B cars to be too small to be popular in the US. I know nothing about the Lupo, but the Polo is not a bad car at all. I still prefer the Renault, however.

Audi is generally held in higher regard in Europe than in the US, and is considered a peer of BMW and Mercedes there, which isn't so much true here. Their prices reflect that.

FIAT is also still quite lively there.

[grantsfo]

Isnt VW in Turkey?

[Allan]

I wonder what kind of autocrosser this would make?

[redshift]

HELLO! F CAR!


M

[fiid]

Skoda is VW now.

I wouldn't bother staying away from Skoda or even FIAT anymore. These days they are a lot better than they used to be.

French cars are awesome. The main problem with French cars is the attitude people have towards the french. The cars are innovative, efficient, reliable, fast, etc. Until recently they were the leaders in Diesel cars, and were the first to market with a production car with active suspension (the Citroen Xantia Activa).

Germany obviously has plenty to bring to the party. There's a brand out of spain called SEAT, that I think is now owned by another company.

I would tend to avoid british marques - they are mostly not british anymore, as mentioned before, and are also kind of expensive, and probably not the most reliable. Rover does have some good cars, but none of them are class leaders. They are not particularly liked from what I can tell.

[fiid]

Oh yeah... except for any of the british sports car marques:

Lotus, Noble, Morgan, TVR, etc are all awesome if they are in budget, and what you are looking for.

[Gustl]

Skoda and Seat belong to the VW-Group for more than 10 years
they all use the same technical basis
it doesn't matter if you decide for a VW Golf Variant, an Audi A4 Variant or a Skoda Octavia Combi
a Seat Alhambra is just the same car as the VW Sharan
the Seat Cordoba Vario was the same car as the VW Polo Variant
the Seat Arosa was the same car than the VW Lupo
a Skoda Fabia is more or less the same as a VW Polo

they all use the same engines, trannys, base plates and similar interior
they only vary in design and the feeling they want to transport

only Audi tries to be (or is?) more upper class - but VW offers the Phaeton and the Touareg
even Skoda offers an upper class sedan - the Superb ...


Allen - what size/class are you thinking of ??

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif) Gustl

[Allan]

Allen - what size/class are you thinking of ??

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif) Gustl
[/quote]

Somewhere along the lines of an Audi A3/A4 or Volvo S40/S60.

Some of the Citroen and Peugoet cars look nice.

This would be for my wife. If I end up having to sell the teener I was looking at a '94 Maserati 4.24 MkII that was calling me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[lapuwali]

So, a C or a D class car, then. A Peugeot 307 or a 406 (Peugeot naming scheme is S0Y, where S is the size class (1,2,3,4,5), and Y is a "version number" that goes up with each major redesign, roughly every 6-7 years. The 407 may be out by now, for all I know.

Hope you guys have a good budget for gasoline...

[hcdmueller]

It is just like a lot of people have said. You can't go wrong with a diesel in Europe. I have had 7 different cars living in England and now Germany. I keep going back to the VW/Skoda/Audi turbo diesels. Nothing bettter than going 100 MPH and getting 40 to 50 MPG. All of the smaller cars I have driven (1.6L or less) are great around town but lose out on the motorway/highway. Their mileage drops pretty quick when you have your foot to the floor all the time.

Always did like the new Peugeot's.