Anybody running without a rear sway bar?, How does it corner? Options

[stephen7]

I read that the early cars didn't have rear sway bars - do they make a difference?

I bought expensive weltmeister sway bars for my 911 and all the PCA racers said take them off and it will corner better. How about 914s? Should you have beefy sway bars for AX and DE or run with stiffer springs, dampeners and thicker torsion bars?

thanks

steve

[DanT]

depends on your set up and what you want to do with your car.

My car is for DE/TT and AX. 21 mm front torsion bars, stock front sway bar, and koni adjustables. Rear is 180# springs and Bil sports with no rear bar, stock or otherwise.

Car is well balanced, turns in on command.
Alignment has a lot to do with a cars cornering and balance.

[Dave_Darling]

First, I don't believe that early cars had sway-bars. And I think that when the factory fitted the bars, they were front and rear both. (But no, I'm not certain about it.)

I loved the factory F&R bars on my car when I had stock springs. Now that I've got 140s in the rear (still stock front torsions!) and a 19mm bar up front, the rear bar was too much roll stiffness in the rear. I removed it and am happy with the balance. (For now.)

It's all a question of balance. You can increase the roll stiffness directly with sway bars, or indirectly with stiffer springs (which also increase the overall stiffness). Either way works, and to some extent you can trade off between the two.

EDIT--When I had the stock suspension, I tried a little autoX with the rear bar disconnected. Not a huge difference, but I liked the way the car felt with the rear bar connected better than with it disconnected. I put it back on at the first opportunity! Until I upgraded the rear springs, that is...

--DD

[stephen7]

what size tires and wheels are you running? Did you try it with a rear sway bar too? Did you get too much oversteer with a rear sway bar?

[grantsfo]

I'm running my 914/6 with 21 mm front bar, 200# rear springs, no rear bar and it is very balanced.

[turboman808]

really not a question with a definite answer as you see. All depends on what you got already.

I will say this though. On my honda I went for a harder spring in the rear so I didn't need a rear sway bar. At the time seems lots of people had problems with the sub frame tearing out. If I ever get around to it though I will go back and replace the 550# springs with 400s and a 18mm sway so it isn't so harsh over bumps but still handles well.

But most important is you get a balance between the front and rear. Hard front and soft rear is gonna understeer. Soft front and hard rear will over steer.

I try to shoot for a slight understeer that I can throw into oversteer if I need to.

[John]

Our track car has 21mm front torsion bars, a very heavy front sway bar (don't recall the size), 400# rear springs and no rear sway bar.

This car is track only (no auto-x). The car has 245/45-16 Kumho Victo Racers on all four corners.

The car is very neutral. We could tell no difference with the rear bar connected, but in the interest to prevent any rear wheel lift (and wheelspin), we removed the rear bar. Now that we have a limited slip differential, this may not be a problem, but like I said, we could tell no difference with or without the rear sway bar.

[stephen7]

Our track car has 21mm front torsion bars, a very heavy front sway bar (don't recall the size), 400# rear springs and no rear sway bar.

This car is track only (no auto-x). The car has 245/45-16 Kumho Victo Racers on all four corners.

The car is very neutral. We could tell no difference with the rear bar connected, but in the interest to prevent any rear wheel lift (and wheelspin), we removed the rear bar. Now that we have a limited slip differential, this may not be a problem, but like I said, we could tell no difference with or without the rear sway bar.

when you see the pictures of the guy lifting his front tire on hard cornering - is that due to too stiff a combination of front sway bar/torsion bars? Is a little wheel lift ok?

I thought no rear bar would meet with widespread concerns but I stiffer springs and no rear sway bar is a pretty good set up.

thanks guys

steve

[campbellcj]

Wow, I can't imagine driving a 911 w/o a rear swaybar.

Popular opinion for the 914 is that you only want a rear bar if your powerplant and suspension are basically stock (i.e. a 73-74 2.0 that came with swaybars) or if you have upgraded bits and an LSD.

I know that when I bought my current car with a torquey 2.4/four, it was totally undrivable until I unhooked the rear bar. Without an LSD it is very easy to unweight a drive wheel and an open diff sends the power there, resulting in chirping/spinning or worse.

[alan9144]

I don't have any sway bars or uprated shocks/springs on my 75 - yet - and it handles amazingly well, no matter how hard I try the thing is stuck to the road and the tires never make a noise (this is probably why my box is knackered (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Saying that I have a full set of weltmeisters/ adjustable Konis and uprated springs ready to fit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Al

[machina]

no rear bar here either....

[srb7f]

Had one for awhile, took it off and sold it. My current setup is 21mm torsion bars with a stock sway bar, #140 rear springs with Bilsteins all around.

[Joe Ricard]

Yup no rear bar on the red NEck Racer. Primary Autocross car but will have my 1st track lapping day This coming Friday.

[mudfoot76]

My car had a big rear bar when I got it. I took it off after the first DE. The front suspension is stock (w/factory front bar) except for Koni shocks. In the rear, Koni's and 140# springs. The car has very slight understeer at higher speeds.

[URY914]

I ran a rear bar for one DE. Oversteer like crazy. Took it off.

[Aaron Cox]

I ran a rear bar for one DE. Oversteer like crazy. Took it off.

dial in more front bar ?

[Britain Smith]

I have an early car that came with NO swaybars. I added a stock rear bar and a Welt 21mm front bar. The car is flat and handles great...ask some of the folks that I used to AX against. I use the front bar to fine tune the set-up.

-Britain

[jhadler]

As it's been said here already, "it all depends". Car setup and alignment will have a large impact on wether a rear bar is needed.

I run 21 mm torsion bars, 200# coils, and a 22 mm adjustable front sway bar. No rear bar, and the car handles -very- well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've thought about going to softer rear springs and trying a rear bar, but haven't gone there yet. Need a running car to do that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

-Josh2

[SirAndy]

i have to say that i like it better with the rear bar connected, for AX that is. seems to help to get that ass rotated in tight corners.

no power oversteer for me, so i take all the help i can get ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy

[Brando]

I'm running a 21mm front bar, stock tortion bars, 120# springs in the back with a stock rear bar and I cannot get barely any body roll in the hardest of turns. Not to mention it rides nice with Boges in back. 195/55/15 Fuzions on Rivieras.