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stephen7 |
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#1
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Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 4-March 06 From: seattle wa Member No.: 5,663 ![]() |
I read that the early cars didn't have rear sway bars - do they make a difference?
I bought expensive weltmeister sway bars for my 911 and all the PCA racers said take them off and it will corner better. How about 914s? Should you have beefy sway bars for AX and DE or run with stiffer springs, dampeners and thicker torsion bars? thanks steve |
DanT |
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#2
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Going back to the Dark Side! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None ![]() |
depends on your set up and what you want to do with your car.
My car is for DE/TT and AX. 21 mm front torsion bars, stock front sway bar, and koni adjustables. Rear is 180# springs and Bil sports with no rear bar, stock or otherwise. Car is well balanced, turns in on command. Alignment has a lot to do with a cars cornering and balance. |
Dave_Darling |
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#3
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914 Idiot ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15,148 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California ![]() ![]() |
First, I don't believe that early cars had sway-bars. And I think that when the factory fitted the bars, they were front and rear both. (But no, I'm not certain about it.)
I loved the factory F&R bars on my car when I had stock springs. Now that I've got 140s in the rear (still stock front torsions!) and a 19mm bar up front, the rear bar was too much roll stiffness in the rear. I removed it and am happy with the balance. (For now.) It's all a question of balance. You can increase the roll stiffness directly with sway bars, or indirectly with stiffer springs (which also increase the overall stiffness). Either way works, and to some extent you can trade off between the two. EDIT--When I had the stock suspension, I tried a little autoX with the rear bar disconnected. Not a huge difference, but I liked the way the car felt with the rear bar connected better than with it disconnected. I put it back on at the first opportunity! Until I upgraded the rear springs, that is... --DD |
stephen7 |
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#4
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Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 4-March 06 From: seattle wa Member No.: 5,663 ![]() |
what size tires and wheels are you running? Did you try it with a rear sway bar too? Did you get too much oversteer with a rear sway bar?
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grantsfo |
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#5
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Arrrrhhhh! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None ![]() |
I'm running my 914/6 with 21 mm front bar, 200# rear springs, no rear bar and it is very balanced.
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turboman808 |
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#6
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,718 Joined: 31-January 06 From: North Jersey Member No.: 5,505 Region Association: North East States ![]() |
really not a question with a definite answer as you see. All depends on what you got already.
I will say this though. On my honda I went for a harder spring in the rear so I didn't need a rear sway bar. At the time seems lots of people had problems with the sub frame tearing out. If I ever get around to it though I will go back and replace the 550# springs with 400s and a 18mm sway so it isn't so harsh over bumps but still handles well. But most important is you get a balance between the front and rear. Hard front and soft rear is gonna understeer. Soft front and hard rear will over steer. I try to shoot for a slight understeer that I can throw into oversteer if I need to. |
John |
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#7
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member? what's a member? ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None ![]() |
Our track car has 21mm front torsion bars, a very heavy front sway bar (don't recall the size), 400# rear springs and no rear sway bar.
This car is track only (no auto-x). The car has 245/45-16 Kumho Victo Racers on all four corners. The car is very neutral. We could tell no difference with the rear bar connected, but in the interest to prevent any rear wheel lift (and wheelspin), we removed the rear bar. Now that we have a limited slip differential, this may not be a problem, but like I said, we could tell no difference with or without the rear sway bar. |
stephen7 |
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#8
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Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 4-March 06 From: seattle wa Member No.: 5,663 ![]() |
Our track car has 21mm front torsion bars, a very heavy front sway bar (don't recall the size), 400# rear springs and no rear sway bar. This car is track only (no auto-x). The car has 245/45-16 Kumho Victo Racers on all four corners. The car is very neutral. We could tell no difference with the rear bar connected, but in the interest to prevent any rear wheel lift (and wheelspin), we removed the rear bar. Now that we have a limited slip differential, this may not be a problem, but like I said, we could tell no difference with or without the rear sway bar. when you see the pictures of the guy lifting his front tire on hard cornering - is that due to too stiff a combination of front sway bar/torsion bars? Is a little wheel lift ok? I thought no rear bar would meet with widespread concerns but I stiffer springs and no rear sway bar is a pretty good set up. thanks guys steve |
campbellcj |
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#9
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I can't Re Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,620 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Agoura, CA Member No.: 21 Region Association: Southern California ![]() ![]() |
Wow, I can't imagine driving a 911 w/o a rear swaybar.
Popular opinion for the 914 is that you only want a rear bar if your powerplant and suspension are basically stock (i.e. a 73-74 2.0 that came with swaybars) or if you have upgraded bits and an LSD. I know that when I bought my current car with a torquey 2.4/four, it was totally undrivable until I unhooked the rear bar. Without an LSD it is very easy to unweight a drive wheel and an open diff sends the power there, resulting in chirping/spinning or worse. |
alan9144 |
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#10
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Newbie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 10-March 05 From: SoCal, previously Scotland, UK Member No.: 3,735 Region Association: Southern California ![]() |
I don't have any sway bars or uprated shocks/springs on my 75 - yet - and it handles amazingly well, no matter how hard I try the thing is stuck to the road and the tires never make a noise (this is probably why my box is knackered (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Saying that I have a full set of weltmeisters/ adjustable Konis and uprated springs ready to fit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Al |
machina |
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#11
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Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,030 Joined: 21-June 03 From: Miami Beach, FL Member No.: 848 ![]() ![]() |
no rear bar here either....
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srb7f |
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#12
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Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 157 Joined: 17-May 04 From: Roswell, GA Member No.: 2,077 Region Association: None ![]() |
Had one for awhile, took it off and sold it. My current setup is 21mm torsion bars with a stock sway bar, #140 rear springs with Bilsteins all around.
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Joe Ricard |
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#13
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CUMONIWANNARACEU ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 ![]() |
Yup no rear bar on the red NEck Racer. Primary Autocross car but will have my 1st track lapping day This coming Friday.
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mudfoot76 |
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#14
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Currently teenerless :-( ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 946 Joined: 18-March 04 From: Carmel, IN Member No.: 1,814 Region Association: None ![]() |
My car had a big rear bar when I got it. I took it off after the first DE. The front suspension is stock (w/factory front bar) except for Koni shocks. In the rear, Koni's and 140# springs. The car has very slight understeer at higher speeds.
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URY914 |
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#15
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 126,119 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None ![]() |
I ran a rear bar for one DE. Oversteer like crazy. Took it off.
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Aaron Cox |
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#16
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Professional Lawn Dart ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: Corona, CA Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California ![]() |
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Britain Smith |
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#17
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Nano Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,354 Joined: 27-February 03 From: Hillsboro, OR Member No.: 364 ![]() |
I have an early car that came with NO swaybars. I added a stock rear bar and a Welt 21mm front bar. The car is flat and handles great...ask some of the folks that I used to AX against. I use the front bar to fine tune the set-up.
-Britain |
jhadler |
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#18
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Long term tinkerer... ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,879 Joined: 7-April 03 From: Lyons, CO Member No.: 529 ![]() |
As it's been said here already, "it all depends". Car setup and alignment will have a large impact on wether a rear bar is needed.
I run 21 mm torsion bars, 200# coils, and a 22 mm adjustable front sway bar. No rear bar, and the car handles -very- well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've thought about going to softer rear springs and trying a rear bar, but haven't gone there yet. Need a running car to do that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) -Josh2 |
SirAndy |
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#19
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Resident German ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 42,191 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California ![]() |
i have to say that i like it better with the rear bar connected, for AX that is. seems to help to get that ass rotated in tight corners.
no power oversteer for me, so i take all the help i can get ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy |
Brando |
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#20
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BUY MY SPARE KIDNEY!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,935 Joined: 29-August 04 From: Santa Ana, CA Member No.: 2,648 Region Association: Southern California ![]() |
I'm running a 21mm front bar, stock tortion bars, 120# springs in the back with a stock rear bar and I cannot get barely any body roll in the hardest of turns. Not to mention it rides nice with Boges in back. 195/55/15 Fuzions on Rivieras.
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