Yet another six conversion thread, Targeting summer '07. Options

[lapuwali]

So, I picked up my '75 2.7 engine yesterday. Price was $2100, complete with CIS and 911 exhaust. From what I've seen so far, a rebuild won't be REQUIRED, but I haven't ruled out doing one yet. None of the head studs on the intake side have pulled. I haven't looked at the exhaust side, yet. The top of the cases are heavily covered in dirty, oily gook, but the cylinders and head are relatively clean. The exhaust on it is a backdated set of HEs, and it appears the engine was run that way for several years until it was removed about a year ago. It's claimed it was rebuilt once before.

If I decide not to rebuild the engine right now, I'll run the CIS as is, and maybe do an EFI conversion later.

I'm slowly going to gather parts to do the conversion. I'll be using a firewall mount, most likely Rich Johnson's.

No heat, this won't be a daily driver, so Bursch headers are the plan for now.

Fiberglass "tin" looks like it would work well enough, and it's cheap at $175 from Rennspeed, so that seems to be covered.

Oil plumbing is still open. The DWD tank seems like a good idea, but the old threads on it point to the Club Store, which isn't up. How much is this? Is it available? From whom? GPR doesn't show it on their site. I'm leaning towards AN fittings and lines, since I can make those up myself, and the fittings are readily available.

I have a line on a flywheel already.

This will be a street/AX car, so I think I can get away without an external oil cooler for now.

Adding things up, it looks like the parts (including the engine) will run me about $4500-5000, assuming no engine rebuild.

Costs so far: $2100 (used 2.7 with CIS), $170 (bad flywheel), $370 (new flywheel), $260 (firewall mount), $125 (internally regulated alternator) $150 (930 tach): $3175 to date.

Parts still to be sourced: oil tank/filler neck/console/lines ($1000), fuel pump ($200), clutch kit ($500), headers ($350 + coating: $600), oil cooler mods ($150) "tin" ($200 fiberglass): $2650

$5825 est. total cost.

The alternator isn't *required*, I just hate external regs. Complicates the wiring.

[elwood-914]

Dang James, if I could find a six for that cheap I'd be thinking about doing the same thing. Where did ya find such a deal?? Good luck with the swap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[brp914]

maybe not the majority view, but if you're gonna ax, that motor is gonna see stresses only a healthy motor should. at the same time, if you're gonna put it on the street, it needs to be reliable because a breakdown can be more than an inconvenience if on the frwy, for instance. I'd tear the thing down and hopefully confirm you got the good deal you thought. plus, you know it leaks as it is.

[lapuwali]

At the same time as the $2500 2.7 showed up, a $1200 2.4 and a $1300 3.0 (!) also showed up on Craigslist. All three were complete engines, with injection. The 3.0 went very quickly, as expected. I never followed up on the 2.4, as I'd already agreed to buy the 2.7. I did use the other engines to negotiate the price down to $2100. He seemed satisfied with the deal.

The same guy is going to be selling off quite a few other toys. He has a 2.2 (3R) case, some 911 exhaust parts (including what looked like a Dansk muffler). He's also going to sell a '70/'71 2.2E Targa, a 3.2 Carrera, and a '67 912, probably all in the next few months. They just bought a new house, and he's going to turn all three cars and the parts into one 964, and funds for house stuff.

[echocanyons]

The engine listed as a 3.0 was really only a 2.7

I suspect the 2.4 will make its way into another 914 really soon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Wasn't your engine a really low mile 2.7 like 98K miles or something

Congrats on the score

[lapuwali]

The PO of my engine bought it from some guy who'd run it in his '75 911. The PO claimed to have driven that '75 with that engine, and that it didn't smoke or make any bad noises. Beyond that, there's no knowing other than what the engine itself tells me.

[lapuwali]

Finally got round to checking the 2.7 carefully. All of the head studs are intact, none pulled or broken. Peering down the plug holes didn't show any bad things. I need to get a spare gearbox and starter connected to try a compression test, or buy a leakdown kit. So far, it's looking like I will be able to just use this engine as-is, at least for a season or so.

Bought a used flywheel off Ebay, and it turned out to be way too thin. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Bought a NOS flywheel with new bolts and pilot bearing, so no worries there. Bought one of the many clone firewall mounts available (this one from Maddog).

Since timing a 911 engine in a 914 is really hard, I'm going to go with a fully electronic ignition setup. Most likely, this will be EDIS, so now I need to pursue some way to get the trigger wheel set up. I'm going to use the CIS as-is to get the engine going, and may convert to MS later using the bitz racing parts.

Costs so far: $2100 (used 2.7 with CIS), $170 (bad flywheel), $370 (new flywheel), $260 (firewall mount), $150 (930 tach): $3050 to date.

[GeorgeRud]

As long as the engine is out of the car, put on the flywheel and place paint marks on the outer edge of the flywheel at TDC and 35 degrees. This will allow you to easily check the timing with the engine in place.

[Mueller]

if you want, we can use the bad flywheel to mock up the timing mark placements...my rotary table should be good for 45" to 1' accuracy

[Trekkor]

Yay!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

Just run it.

the cost to rebuild any SIX is expensive.
You could buy a used motor every year for a few years for the price of a shop built motor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


KT

[lapuwali]

if you want, we can use the bad flywheel to mock up the timing mark placements...my rotary table should be good for 45" to 1' accuracy

Sounds good. Sent you a PM about possibly using that thing to make a timing wheel, too.

[Dr Evil]

James, have you seen my set up for a timing wheel in other posts? I have it all set up fot the MJLJ, just need to brake in the engine. Do you want me to post the pics again?

[lapuwali]

James, have you seen my set up for a timing wheel in other posts? I have it all set up fot the MJLJ, just need to brake in the engine. Do you want me to post the pics again?

I saw the pics, thanks.

I don't much like the idea of having the crank wheel outboard of the fan belt, as that means you have to remove the sensor to replace the belt. Mounting the EDIS wheel on the back of the pulley isn't feasible, as it's too thick. The two options are to buy/make a thinner wheel, or trigger the system off the flywheel instead. With MSII (which I have) I can use an arbitrary number of "teeth" to trigger the ignition (6-1 would probably be best), and have the MSII ECU fire the coil itself, and use the distributor I have (locked) to only distribute the spark. Alternatively, fitting 36-1 "teeth" (perhaps set screws) in the flywheel would make EDIS work. This leaves the pulley end completely free.

[neo914-6]

Is your -4 running? It's "insane" to have two concurrent 914 projects... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[brant]

neat project.
nice thread!

[lapuwali]

Is your -4 running? It's "insane" to have two concurrent 914 projects... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I only have one 914. Yes, it's running with the /4 in it now, but in a few months, it'll go back on stands to start the conversion. I'm considering sourcing all the parts and getting the engine to run outside the car, with the new ignition, so I can do the actual swap fairly quickly.

[grantsfo]

Yay!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

Just run it.

the cost to rebuild any SIX is expensive.
You could buy a used motor every year for a few years for the price of a shop built motor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


KT

Yep tons of cheap, not quite perfect, but solid 911 engines out there. I have over 1500 hard miles on the 2.4 E engine that I picked up for $2K no problems other than some oil leaks that I have fixed. My plan is to sell 2.4 when it blows and pickup another. Frankly at this point I have recieved $2000 of utility from my engine, now everyday that it runs is just a bonus.

2.7 is my dream engine however I'm kinda growing attached to my little 2.4. Great little engine. If Porsche had built a truck in the 70's this is the engine they would have used! Great torque, pulls hard from low RPMs to about 6000 RPM and them runs out of steam.

Nice to see yet another ecomonical six conversion in the works! We need to flood the 914 market with cheap six conversions. Its our duty in keeping these cars affordable!

[lapuwali]

Picked up a 930 tach off Ebay for $125 + shipping. Has a boost gauge in it. I need to figure out what to do with that. Perhaps I'll convert it into a manifold pressure gauge, since it's marked for 0-1 bar now, so I can say that's "absolute" pressure, not "boost". I'll just need to figure out how to match up the electrical characteristics of the gauge with a signal source. The ohm range of the gauge seems pretty low. 0 ohms is pegged "low" (0 bar), 47 ohms is pegged high (1 bar), but it's likely lower than this. 47ohms was just the lowest resistance above 0 I could assemble so far.

[lapuwali]

Looks like I may not run the stock CIS, after all. I'm missing some bits, and I really want to run EFI eventually, so I'll just move up the transition. I'll pick up a set of adapter bungs to fit EFI injectors in the CIS manifold from www.bitzracing.com ($20ea, or $120 for the set). The rest of the stuff I can source elsewhere for less. I already have a Megasquirt MSII ECU on hand.

Now, I just have to decide how much of the CIS stuff I'm going to hack up to make this work. The least hacky way to do this is just to remove the fuel distributor and the air flapper, and run the rest. This allows me to use the CIS airbox and a stock air filter. The most hacky way is to cut up the airbox and run a different filter on the throttle body. The main advantage here is more space in the engine bay, and a less convoluted air path. The disadvantage is I'll have to fabricate a filtering solution.

[mightyohm]

Sounds like a fun project, and I saw you driving down El Camino today. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)