'73 914 1.7 rebuilt to 2.0 Options

[adam914]

I'm seriously considering buying a 914 that has just had the original 1.7 liter engine rebuilt as a 2.0.

Can the block support this w/out the walls becoming too thin?

Is the block of the 1.7 and the 2.0 identical?

Any thoughts?

Many thanks.

[Mueller]

I'm seriously considering buying a 914 that has just had the original 1.7 liter engine rebuilt as a 2.0.

Can the block support this w/out the walls becoming too thin?

Is the block of the 1.7 and the 2.0 identical?

Any thoughts?

Many thanks.

a few diffent ways to do it:

install 2.0 crank, rods, pistons and cylinders (block is unaffected)...using the correct 2.0 heads would be a nice addition...ask if it has 3 (this what you want) or 4 studs on the heads holding on the intake plenums


oh yea, come on down to Hayward this Sunday, there will be plenty of 914s to check out (partsheaven.com) at the swap meet

or install a big bore kit which changes the piston and cylinders to 96mm, the motor is really a 1911, but sometimes called a 2.0 for simplicity...again, no changes to the block

[TravisNeff]

The blocks are the same, there may be some minor differences but you can put in 94 or 96mm big bore pistons without any case modifications. Also you can swap the 66mm crank with the 71mm unit (along with connecting rods) without any modifications.

[elwood-914]

O.K. Supose he builds up his 1.7 and has the original D-Jet. Will it work for him? Can you tweek it enough for the 2.0? Or does he have to get all 2.0 Fuel injection parts or carbs?

[chilli]

I understnand it the 2.0 will not fit on 1.7 or 1.8 case. So do not get bigger valves.

Wish my UPS driver looked like that

mike

[Dave_Darling]

I understnand it the 2.0 will not fit on 1.7 or 1.8 case. So do not get bigger valves.

The 2.0 what won't fit?

The 2.0 heads don't care what crankcase their motor is built on--you can build any-displacement on any 914 crankcase, no problems. Most of the VW Type IVs as well.

The 2.0 heads fit on 1.8 and 2.0 cylinders; they don't really fit on 1.7 cylinders. The 1.7 heads won't fit on 1.8 or 2.0 cylinders. (Not without some machining, though the latter is fairly simple.)

All stock 914 cylinders fit all stock 914 crankcases just fine.

If you use a 2.0 crank, you must use 2.0 rods--the rod journals are a different size than on the 1.7/1.8 crank. If you use 2.0 crank and rods, it's easiest to use the 2.0 pistons--the wrist pin is in a different location than the 1.7 or 1.8 pistons, and you'll either end up with waaaay too much deck height, or the pistons sticking out of the top of the cylinders at TDC. (I forget which way around it goes.)

--DD

[914werke]

If you have the parts, this is what I just did:
Stock recently rebuilt 1.7 tore down and put 96mm Cyl's
on it an got a set of HYP KB pistons w/the correct pin offset from
Jake. Used a set of 2.0 heads and a complete Djet setup except for
1.7 injectors..1911.
capped with a set of OE 2.0 HE's & a bursch...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Gint]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hijacked.gif) Sorry, we might all learn something here though. And it is related...

So, lemme ask this. I have a 1911 that is 96mm pistons built on a 1.8 case/heads. Said motor lunched a cam lobe (hydraulic lifters). But it still runs fairly well considering it's only using 3 cylinders.

Anywho...

I want to put this thing back on the road on a serious budget. Can I take a 1.7 long block apart and merely put the original motor's 96 mm pistons and heads on it with no machining? And expect it to run? And for how long?

Opinions? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[914werke]

My opine..yes it'll probably run fine, if the 1.7 longblock is is decent shape.

[drewvw]

this is exactly what I've been asking rdauenhauer privately. I have a stock 1.7 that was rebuilt well about 10K miles ago.

I like the idea of pulling the engine this winter and dropping the 96mm cylinders on there with 2.0 heads.


makey drew excited!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[chilli]

I understnand it the 2.0 will not fit on 1.7 or 1.8 case. So do not get bigger valves.

The 2.0 what won't fit?


--DD

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

OK left the word heads out, but that is where the valves are.

mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Gint]

I have no real practical experience rebuilding an air cooled VW motor, so let me ask a direct question. The answer seems obvious at this point, but I'll be obtuse and ask the question anyway.

Do all of the cases (and subsequently the cylinders) have the same size hole, such that any cylinder will just fit right in without machining?

[drewvw]

Do all of the cases (and subsequently the cylinders) have the same size hole, such that any cylinder will just fit right in without machining?

from what rich has been saying...yes. You can drop the 94 or 96mm cylinder/pistons right onto the 1.7 block but lets have him verify.

i love the 1911 idea! convincing the wife as we speak. oh honey... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Gint]

Do all of the cases (and subsequently the cylinders) have the same size hole, such that any cylinder will just fit right in without machining?

from what rich has been saying...yes. You can drop the 94 or 96mm cylinder/pistons right onto the 1.7 block but lets have him verify.

i love the 1911 idea! convincing the wife as we speak. oh honey... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

My first 914 was a dual carb'd (40IDF's) 1911 built on a 1.8 case/heads. Awesome car. Great low end torque. It was an absolute blast to drive around down.

Actually, I should confess. The engine I'm referring to in this post is from that same car. I bought it back yesterday.

[drewvw]

Actually, I should confess. The engine I'm referring to in this post is from that same car. I bought it back yesterday.

dum dum dum!

[Dave_Darling]

Do all of the cases (and subsequently the cylinders) have the same size hole, such that any cylinder will just fit right in without machining?

The holes in the case are the same for all stock 914 and Type IV VW motors.

The recesses in the heads are smaller for the 1.7 engines only! The 1.8s and 2.0s had the same size "cylinder registers" in the heads, so you can swap 1.8 heads onto a 2.0 and vise-versa. (I'm completely ignoring the intake setup, compression ratio, and all those other questions. My point is that the heads will indeed fit.)

You can swap the 96es onto your 1.7 case, with no more problem than swapping old used P&Cs onto any old used motor.

Note that there were three distinct "flavors" of 96mm P&C kit available:
For the 1.7, they used cylinders with smaller ODs on the outboard ends (so they'd fit the 1.7 heads) and pistsons that had the wrist-pin in the correct location for the 66mm crank.
For the 1.8, they used cylinders with the larger OD, and pistons for the 66mm crank.
For the 2.0, the kit used the cylinders with the larger OD, and pistons for the 71mm crank.

The 96es for the 1.7 are very thin, which is not conducive to long life. The ones for the 1.8 and 2.0 were thick enough, though I am told the raw castings of the easily-available new kits these days are pretty miserable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

--DD

[Gint]

Thank you Dave. I figured you'd weigh in sooner or later.

[drewvw]

Do all of the cases (and subsequently the cylinders) have the same size hole, such that any cylinder will just fit right in without machining?

The holes in the case are the same for all stock 914 and Type IV VW motors.

The recesses in the heads are smaller for the 1.7 engines only! The 1.8s and 2.0s had the same size "cylinder registers" in the heads, so you can swap 1.8 heads onto a 2.0 and vise-versa. (I'm completely ignoring the intake setup, compression ratio, and all those other questions. My point is that the heads will indeed fit.)

You can swap the 96es onto your 1.7 case, with no more problem than swapping old used P&Cs onto any old used motor.

Note that there were three distinct "flavors" of 96mm P&C kit available:
For the 1.7, they used cylinders with smaller ODs on the outboard ends (so they'd fit the 1.7 heads) and pistsons that had the wrist-pin in the correct location for the 66mm crank.
For the 1.8, they used cylinders with the larger OD, and pistons for the 66mm crank.
For the 2.0, the kit used the cylinders with the larger OD, and pistons for the 71mm crank.

The 96es for the 1.7 are very thin, which is not conducive to long life. The ones for the 1.8 and 2.0 were thick enough, though I am told the raw castings of the easily-available new kits these days are pretty miserable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

--DD

Dave, that's interesting. I am thinking about buying used 2.0 cylinders (and heads) and having them bored out to 96mm, and then buying the new pistons. So similar to rich's 1911 setup. How's that strike you?


Drew

[Aaron Cox]

a 1911 with 2l heads puts out about the same HP as a stock 2l.... but lacks teh torque.

they are FUN. spin fast, and make power....

i still think a 71mm crank si short tho LOL

[drewvw]

I know...the name of the game is compromise here. I have a solid, rebuilt 1.7 that runs well so I need to use that guy as the base. The 2.0 heads/96mm gives me the best bang for the buck.

I can justify the cost and time for a 1911...but I gotta keep my eye on the prize (renovating the house).