NLA Parts, What IS no longer available Options

[Pat Garvey]

After reading a number of posts on the main forum & seeing that this part & that part are NLA, I was thinking (dangerous!) - let's put together a list of those parts that are NLA & get ideas on how to deal with it. Ex: apparently the gas pedal is now NLA. What's to be done when you need a replacement?

Many of these parts are important to both concours & regular 914 people. So how do we deal with thier non-availability?

I'll nail this thread if the feedback is worth it. I think we can all benefit from it. Guess I've lost touch since I haven't had to buy many parts for some years (stocked up in the 80's). But, some of the basics are NLA these days & how do we deal with it?

[sixerdon]

It seems like the NLA parts issue is getting like it was with the 356's back in the 70's. NOS cache and quality used parts are the only viable answer. It's going to be a long list.

I'll start with the needs of an original windshield with VW and/or Audi on it. 356's and 911's have plenty of replacements.

Don

[JeffBowlsby]

I thought about doing this a few times. Then reality sets in. I actually enjoy making these kinds of lists, but this one would be never ending I think. I would start it as a worksheet with PN, Part name, Availabel aftrmarket or other solution. If every NLA grommet, trim part and body panel were included, the list would go on forever. Then again is it that important to be comprehensive of every NLA part? Some are obvious, like fenders, Targa tops, rear window glass...no one would really benefit from this info. What may be good info to document is things like where to find good substitutes for those pesky NLA black plastic rivets, or weatherstripping.

[TJB/914]

Hi guys,

I hate to say it, but the simple answer to NLA parts is a fat checkbook!!!! Someone will always have it and if you really need it you have to step up with the money $$. Having said all this the second answer is repo parts. Having been a past member of the V/8 Club of America many of my past friends started mfg Repo parts for the NLA parts demand. Some of them now have now quit their jobs to manage successful new businesses.

I believe any 914 entusiast should start looking at 914 Repo parts as a sideline business then grow it to whatever??? In summary I believe the NLA parts delimina is Repo parts. Start with the plastic (white & black) rivets?? Lots of plastic parts on a 914.

Tom
BTW
A V/8 friend of mine started furnishing package kits of nuts & bolts for the guy who didn't want the hassle. He is now retired having sold the business. Think Repo!!!!!

[Part Pricer]

...apparently the gas pedal is now NLA.

I don't know where you got that from. The accelerator pedal IS available from dealers and other OEM suppliers. You can get pricing and availability from the usual suspects on my PEDAL SYSTEM FOR CARS WITH MANUAL TRANSMISSION page. (Sorry, GPR's catalog is temporarily off-line)

[TJB/914]

More of my 2-cents worth.

Any Repo parts must be made to OEM or better standards. Cheap repo's will not sell. Make only the best quality and it will sell.

Also
Start hording away all NLA parts you can. Go to the dealer and buy it now or pay later. That's what I do. If you don't use it, sell it later for a nice markup. NLA parts are drying up, so the answer is Repo stuff.

Tom
BTW
Here's a few things I put away. Example: I recently purchased the white plastic cups for the trunk @ $2.54 each.

[Pat Garvey]

More of my 2-cents worth.

Any Repo parts must be made to OEM or better standards. Cheap repo's will not sell. Make only the best quality and it will sell.

Also
Start hording away all NLA parts you can. Go to the dealer and buy it now or pay later. That's what I do. If you don't use it, sell it later for a nice markup. NLA parts are drying up, so the answer is Repo stuff.

Tom

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

But, this brings up another issue - rubber! We all know how $$ these parts can be and if we stockpile them, what's the best storage medium. Hate to think about pouring a bunch of bucks into rubber I'll need in 10 years, only to find the pieces rotted in the parts bag when I want them. I imagine the best way to store them would be in plastic bags that have been evacuated. You can buy those devices for storing food items at a fairly cheap price. Seems to me that if you could store them with no air that they'd last a lot longer.

20 years ago I bought enough fabric covered fuel & vacuum lines to last my lifetime. Now I'm beginning to wonder if they will, or even if they're still all that usable right now.

However, back to the original post. I agree, we all know about the non-availability of some major components, but what about the guy who's pondering a major redo of his 914. He may think that insignificant pieces are out there to make his car new again, including grommets, seals,etc. Wouldn't a list of NLA mini items be of value? When I redid all the little bits & pieces of my car, I simply went to Stoddard with a list, money & got them all - can't do that anymore & I'd have been very surprised if that were the case then. I'll be more than happy to spreadsheet a list if people will send me the info. Or...if I knew a source for this info online I'd research it myself.

[JPB]

Simply said, we all need a few beaters in the yard or in a garage for parts down the road. The better the inventory, the better the glory. I have seen many 914 on Evil-bay with no papers cheap. I think thats the way to go. I just purchased an accelerator pedal for 35$ off of ebay a couple of months ago. Noone was bidding for it. Go figure?

[GWN7]

What degrades rubber and plastic is ozone and UV light. UV is the trigger that creates ozone.

As ozone is made when ultraviolet light from the sun splits an oxygen molecule (O2), forming two single oxygen atoms. Each single oxygen atom then binds to an oxygen molecule to form ozone. Stratospheric ozone has been called "good" ozone because it protects the Earth's surface from dangerous ultraviolet light.

"bad ozone" Ozone can also be found in the troposphere, the lowest layer of the atmosphere. Tropospheric ozone (often termed "bad" ozone) is man-made, a result of air pollution from internal combustion engines and power plants. Automobile exhaust and industrial emissions release a family of nitrogen oxide gases (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC), by-products of burning gasoline and coal. NOx and VOC combine chemically with oxygen to form ozone during sunny, high-temperature conditions of late spring, summer and early fall. High levels of ozone are usually formed in the heat of the afternoon and early evening, dissipating during the cooler nights.

Ozone is used as a bleach, a deodorizing agent, and a sterilization agent for air and drinking water. At low concentrations, it is toxic.

Although ozone pollution is formed mainly in urban and suburban areas, it ends up in rural areas as well, carried by prevailing winds or resulting from cars and trucks that travel into rural areas. Significant levels of ozone pollution can be detected in rural areas as far as 150 miles (250 km) downwind from urban industrial zones.

Because ozone is very corrosive, it damages the material it comes in contact with.

So the UV reacts with the chemical makeup of the material and ozone helps further damage it.

So the best way to store plastic and rubber parts is in a sealed bag, in a cool, dark place.

Having said that if the cool dark place is next to a ozone water treatment system in your basement (and you live in a major city) you just slowing the process.

[tod914]

what kind of cost is involved with haveing the nla grommets and such reproduced??

[Pat Garvey]

What degrades rubber and plastic is ozone and UV light. UV is the trigger that creates ozone.

As ozone is made when ultraviolet light from the sun splits an oxygen molecule (O2), forming two single oxygen atoms. Each single oxygen atom then binds to an oxygen molecule to form ozone. Stratospheric ozone has been called "good" ozone because it protects the Earth's surface from dangerous ultraviolet light.

"bad ozone" Ozone can also be found in the troposphere, the lowest layer of the atmosphere. Tropospheric ozone (often termed "bad" ozone) is man-made, a result of air pollution from internal combustion engines and power plants. Automobile exhaust and industrial emissions release a family of nitrogen oxide gases (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC), by-products of burning gasoline and coal. NOx and VOC combine chemically with oxygen to form ozone during sunny, high-temperature conditions of late spring, summer and early fall. High levels of ozone are usually formed in the heat of the afternoon and early evening, dissipating during the cooler nights.

Ozone is used as a bleach, a deodorizing agent, and a sterilization agent for air and drinking water. At low concentrations, it is toxic.

Although ozone pollution is formed mainly in urban and suburban areas, it ends up in rural areas as well, carried by prevailing winds or resulting from cars and trucks that travel into rural areas. Significant levels of ozone pollution can be detected in rural areas as far as 150 miles (250 km) downwind from urban industrial zones.

Because ozone is very corrosive, it damages the material it comes in contact with.

So the UV reacts with the chemical makeup of the material and ozone helps further damage it.

So the best way to store plastic and rubber parts is in a sealed bag, in a cool, dark place.

Having said that if the cool dark place is next to a ozone water treatment system in your basement (and you live in a major city) you just slowing the process.

Interesting! I see similarities here in laying down good wine for future use.

I'd forgotten about the ozone effects on rubber - thanks for thr re-education. Are you certain about the toxicity of LOW concentrations? Enlighten us.

[GWN7]

When you inhale ozone, it travels throughout your respiratory tract. Because ozone is very corrosive, it damages the bronchioles and alveoli in your lungs, air sacs that are important for gas exchange. Repeated exposure to ozone can inflame lung tissues and cause respiratory infections.

Ozone exposure can aggravate existing respiratory conditions such as asthma, reduce your lung function and capacity for exercise and cause chest pains and coughing. Young children and the elderly are most susceptible to the high levels of ozone encountered during the summer.

In addition to effects on humans, the corrosive nature of ozone can damage plants and trees. High levels of ozone can destroy agricultural crops and forest vegetation.

To protect yourself from ozone exposure, you should be aware of the Air Quality Index (AQI) in your area everyday -- you can usually find it in the newspaper or on a morning weather forecast on TV or radio. You should also be familiar with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) guide for ozone-alert values.
What do the numbers in the AQI mean? The AQI measures concentrations of five air pollutants: ozone, sulfur dioxide, particulate matter, carbon monoxide and nitrogen dioxide. The EPA has chosen these pollutants as criteria pollutants, but these are not all of the pollutants in the air. These concentrations are compared to a standard set out in federal law. An index value of 100 means that all of the criteria pollutants are at the maximum level that is considered safe for the majority of the population. To reduce your exposure to ozone, you should avoid exercising during afternoon and early evening hours in the summer.

Craig C. Freudenrich, Ph.D.

For more information and links: http://science.howstuffworks.com/framed.ht...qps/gooduphigh/

BTW the rubber stuff I build is UV stable. Which means that they won't breakdown very easyly, but it will happen over time like the original parts.

For more info on UV and it's effects on material: http://gcrio.org/ozone/chapter7.pdf

[GWN7]

what kind of cost is involved with haveing the nla grommets and such reproduced??

My intention is to be able to offer a lot of the NLA parts. I have just purchased the machinery to allow me to manufacture lens. Same machinery will hopefully allow me to be able to make the window end caps (which I have been working on for over a year). As to exact cost, it depends on the item....it's complexity of the angles, if it has a metal insert (such as the front windshield seal or bumper tops) and the type of material it was made from originaly.

A lot of the grommets while not available from Porsche are available from other sources (that's where Porsche bought them from).

If you find a part that is truly NLA and I mean you have asked for it at your local Porsche dealership and then called (not just looked on their web sites) the big 4 (GPR, Pelican, Stoddard and AA) and you still can't find it send me a PM with the details and I'll see what I can do.

Also if anyone is attending the WCC this year, I'll have samples of some of the stuff I've been working on with me. Just ask.

[boxstr]

Repo Is a great idea. You can easily find people willing to take your ideas and repo them at the SEMA show. They are usually their in another exhibition hall and they come from all over the world. India and China are the two countries that are best suited to supply rubber items.
With that said, it can be done, and once you have done it who do you sell it to.
Sorry but my feeling is that after all of the R&D and setup costs, you need to recoup your costs, and to be able to do this you have to charge for it. My experinece is that 914 owners are not going to pay the price. I spent over a year researching and perfecting the recovering of the 914 dashpad and the targa bar pad. With my prices set as low as I could and make a very small profit I have sold 2 dashpads and 3 targa bar pads. In one years time.
If I was doing the same thing for the Mopars or American iron I could sell all I could make, they will pay for the repro items.
So, go ahead and knock yourself out. And good luck.
Craig

[914runnow]

After 30g in mine and it STILL is on jack stands..
Good luck..on your list..
I started in 95 with one..and got disenchanted
with it....Porsche has the chair..I am on the left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)
or me trying to order parts from Stoddards (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)
I guess you get the idea...
If yah wannah list I will put my points in..
But I believe it will really be not much interest..
C'ept to us..
This will be a big set of diapers to keep changing..
Sorry for the negativity.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
But I could start diggin in my notes I guess...
Okay batter up..
Who'z first????????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

[tod914]

Seems there are a fair amount of engineers on this board. Would be nice if various gromet kits were available. Engine bays, fuel line with associated fasteners etc. Like you said, how many are really going to sell.

[TJB/914]

Craig,
So, sorry about all the work that went into the dash pad & targa bar pad. I forgot the 914 crowd is cheap. I should say 80% are cheap (real cheap) and 20% are normal buyers.

My rant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Anyone who puts effort into repo parts should get a decent return on investment. That being said forget the 914 market. I get so annoyed listening to these cheap complainers wanting something cheap with buy back guarantees. I wish they would get out of the 914 market and collect something they can afford. These cheapo people ruin it for the true 914 entrepreneur. End of my rant. You get the idea. I don't like complainers.

I guess the repo market for 914 is slim & not worth the investment till things change. It's not like the V/8 Ford Club & others with deeper pockets. I am back to my original thoughts, collect your oun parts and worry about taking care of your own future 914.

Tom

[boxstr]

In hindsight , if I had made the bling bling goodies for the 914, I would be sold out. The majority of the 914 population would rather put a useless nonesense item on their 914 and have a ratty looking interior or exterior. But look at this cool flapdigit cover I got off ebay.
I will contiue the route that I started and leave the repro items to others.

I will preface this with there are those who will pay for a new seal or new seats, an dTom I have to say that you are correct in that most of those 914 owners are subscribed to the concours forum.
Craig

[914werke]

Ok so my commentary,
It discourages me the sort of elitest attitudes displayed in this particular forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
I participate because I among others are trying to a restore a car, and am interested in details to make it "correct"and complete.
At the end of the day there is still a raging debate wether any such efforts afforded the 914 are WORTH IT.
I am doing it because Its fun, and dont really care how many "POINTS" the car will win or lose at compititions or how much $ I can make selling after its complete.
I havent lost sight of the fact that the reason I got into this particulare model is because it WAS CHEAP, only after did I recognize it true merits.
I imaging Im not alone. So blasting an entire group for being CSOB's because you personally decide to speculate on the potential value for a bit of rubber, hose or focus engery to reproduce this or that widget only to find your desired margin dosent exist I think is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif)
I agree with a comment earlier, pick yourself up a couple of cheap complete cars, I did. Youll find you will have most what you need.

So back to the topic of NLA part: I would guess the vast majority of these parts are the High wear, accident destroyed, or parts the factory didnt feel were likley to be replaced so fewer spares were created.
I personnaly will pay RESONABLE amount for any such part. If you are trying to horde and gouge the community for those pieces, well.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif) your should call up Hussy you two would probably get along just fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I think a list is a good idea, including alternate suppliers and origingal MSPR so folks can make informed choices.
Remember Customer service is still an key to any merchant relationship. $ isnt the only one.

[tod914]

A list of non oem substitute parts would be great.. especailly for those grommets and nla trim pieces, etc. I'm real curious how much some of these things can be produced for. For example, a throttle body gasket.. I found a few places online that make custom gaskets. I'll see whats involved next week.