hot start kit, making my own Options

[modpr2]

i want to make a hot start kit for my 75 914 like the one the sell at Pelican Parts and need to know what parts i need. thanks everyone

[Mueller]

ever try google.com?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

one of many....

[Brad Roberts]

I still havent owned a 914 that needed this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


B

[Cap'n Krusty]

I still havent owned a 914 that needed this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


B

That's 'cause you don't buy cheap*ss "rebuilt" starters from your FLAPS. Those who do, need 'em. The Cap'n

[Brad Roberts]

Oh yeah.. Thanks! I knew their was a reason why!


B

[SirAndy]

I still havent owned a 914 that needed this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[modpr2]

ever try google.com?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

one of many....

sorry man thats a good find but it doesnt tell me the relay i need just that i need to use the bosch one. i was hoping to just go down to autozone or electronics store and get a relay and rig it up myself but i guess im just going to have to order the bosch one since they dont give you the specs on the relay online

[modpr2]

I still havent owned a 914 that needed this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


B

That's 'cause you don't buy cheap*ss "rebuilt" starters from your FLAPS. Those who do, need 'em. The Cap'n

i havent changed the starter since i bought the car so i dont know what it is, but if i used the nippon starter off of ebay would that solve my problem or is there another good starter that you would recomend. thanks

[914Sixer]

I you just need to spend some money buy a 72-89 911 starter. The factory 914 is .8 hp and the 911 is 1.5 hp. You can drive the car around the block with just the starter and a real strong battery.

[SirAndy]

the hot start problem (if the car doesn't crank) is the starter going out ... so the relay may help for a while but it's essentially a band-aid for a failing starter ...

get a new starter, either the 911 one or the high-torque (which i can highly recommend) and be done with it ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy

[Mueller]

ever try google.com?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

one of many....

sorry man thats a good find but it doesnt tell me the relay i need just that i need to use the bosch one. i was hoping to just go down to autozone or electronics store and get a relay and rig it up myself but i guess im just going to have to order the bosch one since they dont give you the specs on the relay online

print out the diagram, go down to autozone...LOOK at the bottom of a few relays, guess what? they'll have numbers on them just like the diagram...heck, even the stock 914 relays will have the same numbers....a more robust (but not needed like mentioned above) is to use a Ford starting relay...google or perhaps do a search here....

[Mark Henry]

This is the one that I disagree with the other guru's. Most guys who say this doesn't work always use the wimpy Bosch relay. Use a ford "on the fender" type solenoid. I bolt it to the bottom starter bolt (minor bracket mod) and I also never cut the stock wiring.

I guess Bosch only sends their crap starters to Canada.
BTW if your starter is toast this won't help

[rhodyguy]

right. eventually the starter will give up the entirely, even with the relay. more often than not it will happen at the least opportune time. btdt. i had to drive about 300 miles, with no hope what so ever of the starter ever working again, and had to fuel up without shutting the engine off. not fun, buy a starter and forget about it, or prepare yourself to ask complete strangers to help you push the car to start it. very humbling.

k

k

[914Mike]

This is the one that I disagree with the other guru's. Most guys who say this doesn't work always use the wimpy Bosch relay. Use a ford "on the fender" type solenoid. I bolt it to the bottom starter bolt (minor bracket mod) and I also never cut the stock wiring.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

NEVER cut the original wiring.

BTW, You guys have ALL missed the most important reason for putting a relay in between your easily replaced starter and the almost-impossible to find early key switch: A giant coil produces a huge spark when disconnected, yes? (Also when connecting...) Guess where that spark happens with the solenoid COIL?

Right, the start contacts on your key switch.

The Bosch relay has a much smaller coil, thus reducing the spark accross your key switch, prolonging it's life. Adding a diode accros the relay coil will ELIMINATE the spark intirely, meaning the starter contacts will last longer than the ignition contacts in the switch... Think about it as a headlight relay, it bypasses the current AROUND your switch to save it from burning out. My '71 had a flakey start switch, after finally finding one and replacing it, there's NO WAY I want to ever do that again! IMO, this is NOT a BAN-AID, just modern engineering applied to a 35 year-old design FLAW. I guess if you LIKE an add-on starter switch on your dash, you can continue to wear out parts that don't seem to be in great supply... (I know, the later switch is easy to find and change, but only because it is a VW part...)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/jsharp.gif)

[jasons]

BTW, You guys have ALL missed the most important reason for putting a relay in between your easily replaced starter and the almost-impossible to find early key switch: A giant coil produces a huge spark when disconnected, yes? (Also when connecting...) Guess where that spark happens with the solenoid COIL?

Right, the start contacts on your key switch.

The Bosch relay has a much smaller coil, thus reducing the spark accross your key switch, prolonging it's life. Adding a diode accros the relay coil will ELIMINATE the spark intirely, meaning the starter contacts will last longer than the ignition contacts in the switch... Think about it as a headlight relay, it bypasses the current AROUND your switch to save it from burning out. My '71 had a flakey start switch, after finally finding one and replacing it, there's NO WAY I want to ever do that again! IMO, this is NOT a BAN-AID, just modern engineering applied to a 35 year-old design FLAW. I guess if you LIKE an add-on starter switch on your dash, you can continue to wear out parts that don't seem to be in great supply... (I know, the later switch is easy to find and change, but only because it is a VW part...)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/jsharp.gif)

Its the way the circuit should have been designed. Not a bandaid. Why not run the power for the starter on the shortest path, through the fattest, newest wire you can? When you consider the original wiring is what 14gauge at best? 30 years old, corroded, and run 10 feet, through a crappy switch, the relay is an improvement.


Some people do try to buy life out of a dumpy starter with the relay, but they are also missing the point of the relay. They are using the improvement as a bandaid. Even if I installed a brand new, hi torque starter, I would relay the power.

Even if your car starts fine without the relay, it doesn't mean the electrical principle isn't sound.

[rhodyguy]

so i take it you have installed a relay with your perfectly operational starter? replacing the long power lead wire is cheap. do you think that when our cars were a few years old the starters were crapping out? no. the wheel has been invented.

k

[jasons]

so i take it you have installed a relay with your perfectly operational starter? replacing the long power lead wire is cheap. do you think that when our cars were a few years old the starters were crapping out? no. the wheel has been invented.

k

You kinda lost me there.

So, back to when you had to drive 300 miles... Did your starter crap out or your relay? If it was your starter, the relay had nothing to do with your dilemma. Your starter was failing. If it was the relay, you could have jumped two leads on the relay harness and started your car fine.

The relay doesn't fix a starter problem. The relay just provides the most voltage and current available to your starter. If you have a dumpy starter it might "appear" to perform better with the relay because you are provided more voltage and more current. However, your starter is still dumpy.

Your headlight power is relayed for a reason. You want the most voltage and current available to your lights. Also if it weren't relayed, the current draw would destroy headlight switches left and right. This is the same principle applied to the starter circuit.

[Brando]

I still havent owned a 914 that needed this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


B

That's 'cause you don't buy cheap*ss "rebuilt" starters from your FLAPS. Those who do, need 'em. The Cap'n

Hey Cap'n, don't forget those of us who still have our original 30 year old starters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I put the ford relay hot-start kit in there. I tried making my own with a super-high-amp 12V relay but it still fried the relay. I suggest buying one of those nipponenza (sp? wtf?) high torque starters with built-in gear reduction. They're $99 or somethin.

[rhodyguy]

the lord knows how old starter WITH the solenoid installed gave up. this was on the way to wcc04'. i called high perfomance house from eureka and rich/brad had one waiting for me. i installed right out in rich's side yard. i have had 0 starter issues since.

point is, i feel the "ford fix" gives the driver a false sense of security.

everybody knows about keeping the bat term clamps and posts clean. snip the end, say 1", off the +lead for the starter at the battery end, and peel back the insulation. more often than not, the strands are covered with corrosion.

k

[rhodyguy]

comparing starter gauge wire to headlight gauge wire, is like oranges to unicorns.

k