My First 914 and looking to stiffen it up for autocross! |
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My First 914 and looking to stiffen it up for autocross! |
Virgil |
Jun 17 2006, 06:20 AM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 7-June 06 From: South Korea Member No.: 6,182 |
It has the following already on it:
1974 PORSCHE 914 2.0, REBUILT 2.0 ENGINE WITH 12,000 MILES. S/S EXHAUST HEAT EXCHANGERS. DELLORTO 40 MM CARBS WITH CB PERFORMANCE MODS. MSD 6A BOX WITH REV LIMITER, MSD COIL.NEW BRAKES, NEW FRONT ROTORS and NEW 19 MM MASTER CYLINDER.NEW SEAT COVERS, COMPLETE 2.0 LITER FACTORY FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM, WITH BRAINS, MANIFOLDS, INJECTORS, PRESSURE SENSORS, WIRE HARNESS and FACTORY AIR CLEANER SYSTEM.TWO PORSCHE FACTORY ASSEMBLY MANUALS. COMPLETE PORSCHE 914 FACTORY REPAIR MANUALS ON MICRO FICHE, WITH MICRO FICHE READER.BOXES OF SPARE PARTS, CLUTCH, FLYWHEEL, AXLE, CV JOINTS, DASH GAUGES, FUEL INJECTION PARTS, DELLORTO SPARE CARB PARTS. FRONT TO REAR WIRING HARNESS, UNCUT. SPARE 901 TRANSMISSION. 100?S OF OTHER PARTS. The owners dad is also a porsche mechanic and built the custom exhaust. The fuel pump was relocated to the front of that car due to temp. issues, also that is what that little red switch is for on the right of the steering wheel. I want to tighten up the suspension (new bushings, adjustable shocks and springs and anti-roll bars). I think it has minilites on it (6-spoke wheels that look very similiar) and I am not sure what tire combo (something else I want to address, what is the max tire size that I can fit on there w/o modifying the body fenders (something I am considering now). The engine is as far as I want to take it for now, focusing on the stuff that will really make it a momentum car (autocross is my goal). Engine is like polished aluminum, it looks beautiful. The owner told me if I want to do any work on it he is glad to set a date and go work on it over a couple beers (porsche mechanic of 15 years) and he still loves his car (glad he sold it to a maintence nut like myself). -Body mods (have a rear lip spoiler but I want a race airdam for the front -SS brake lines and some cross-drilled rotors and new pads -New Tires/Wheels (maybe on the wheels) -New Shocks/Springs/Struts/anti-roll bars/ball joints (koni for the shocks) -Coilovers available? -Fiberglass fenders -Chassis Stiffeners (Light Roll cage/bar to put in the cabin and strust to put on the shock mounts) -Anyway to easily lighten it and still keep it driveable (fiberglass or CF hood, I don't want to eliminate the street driving abilities by eliminatiing lights) -Also, engine swap or biult 2.0L (what is more cost effective in the end?) I am just curious were the hell people get parts for these things, I can't find them anywere. The online store here is out of commision for now. Attached image(s) |
J P Stein |
Jun 17 2006, 08:30 AM
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#2
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
I see Washington plates on that thing....nice car, BTW.
They have AX in So. Korea? If you are in the PNW, you need to come to the WCC in Portland. There'll be more guys with more information that you can assimilate in one sitting....take notes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
Virgil |
Jun 17 2006, 08:58 AM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 7-June 06 From: South Korea Member No.: 6,182 |
I am stationed overseas right now but I will be home in Sept. to see my family. Livin the army life, this is both mine and my dad's pet project, I ride a sportbike normally. Live in WA all my life, love it there.
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J P Stein |
Jun 17 2006, 09:02 AM
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#4
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
OK, got it.
Have your dad come to the WCC & take notes. There will be plenty of old farts there who like nuthin' better that settin' & BSin'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
Virgil |
Jun 17 2006, 09:18 AM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 7-June 06 From: South Korea Member No.: 6,182 |
So far I have this totaled up:
Front/Rear Bilstein shocks: 550 for front/rear Front Cross-Drilled Rotors from Pelican: 85.00 Weltmiester Short Shift Kit: 102.00 Elephant Racing Tire rub kit: 75.00 (2) Turbo Tie Rod and Install Tool: 250.00 Firberglass GT Flares: 450.00 914 Ultimate Airdam from Pelican: 200.00 Touring Seats from Renegade (require core seats): 450 bucks SS Brake Lines: 60 bucks Boxed Trailing Arm kit: 130 Oil Pressure Booster Kit: 30.00 Heavy Duty Oil Pump: 170 914-4 Webcam Performance Lifters: 150 Replacement Intake/Exhaust valves: 30 bucks Replacement Intake Exhaust valve guides: 10 bucks Heavy Duty Valve Spring Set: 10 bucks Web-Cam Carbureted Performance Camshaft: 170 Elephant Raceing Low Friction Control Arm Mounts: 200 bucks Ball Joints: 70 bucks Elephant Racing front monoball cartridge set: 250 Rear 180 Autocross springs: 120 Weltmiester Front/Rear Swaybars: 600 bucks Bumb Steer Kit: 15 911 Turbo Tie Rod End: 90 bucks 22m Effective Rate Front Torsion Bar set, hollow; 300 Elephant racing suspension bushings, front/rear: 550 Any idea what I can cut out and what I should keep? Trying to replace some stuff early so it won't cut out on me later if I am autocrossing but still not sure of what truly needs modification and what doesn't. |
J P Stein |
Jun 17 2006, 10:07 AM
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#6
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
If I might........
If you wanna AX, carwise, tires are the #1 priority.....this may cause some debate, but that doan bother me. Suspension to go with em' is #2. Alignment to go with both of the above is # 3. All the rest is fluff. Butt time is THE most important. Power, weight loss, seats, 5 point belts are all lovely as long as you realize that most of these will put you in a class with AX monsters.....guys with lots of butt time to boot. You should establish some kind of priority. For instance....flares will alow bigger tires & wheels.This stuff is not cheep. Used 4 lug wheels in wider sizes are not often available. Sticking with straight sides, 205-215 are doable. A set of Kumho 710s and 6 inch wheels are still gonna run you around 1K. A decent AX suspension set up for these is a 19mm front anti roll bar, stock T bars and 150-180 lb rear springs. Adjustable rear spring perches give you a wider selection of springs and these springs are about 100 bucks a set. These tires like around -2 deg camber. Getting -2 in front is problematic, but doable. The rear is usualy not a problem. When your driving skills reach the point where you've maxed out this set up, you're gonna be damn fast. Then it's time to move on. The above are my opinions and they're mine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
nebreitling |
Jun 17 2006, 10:37 AM
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#7
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
So far I have this totaled up: Front/Rear Bilstein shocks: 550 for front/rear Front Cross-Drilled Rotors from Pelican: 85.00 Weltmiester Short Shift Kit: 102.00 Elephant Racing Tire rub kit: 75.00 (2) Turbo Tie Rod and Install Tool: 250.00 Firberglass GT Flares: 450.00 914 Ultimate Airdam from Pelican: 200.00 Touring Seats from Renegade (require core seats): 450 bucks SS Brake Lines: 60 bucks Boxed Trailing Arm kit: 130 Oil Pressure Booster Kit: 30.00 Heavy Duty Oil Pump: 170 914-4 Webcam Performance Lifters: 150 Replacement Intake/Exhaust valves: 30 bucks Replacement Intake Exhaust valve guides: 10 bucks Heavy Duty Valve Spring Set: 10 bucks Web-Cam Carbureted Performance Camshaft: 170 Elephant Raceing Low Friction Control Arm Mounts: 200 bucks Ball Joints: 70 bucks Elephant Racing front monoball cartridge set: 250 Rear 180 Autocross springs: 120 Weltmiester Front/Rear Swaybars: 600 bucks Bumb Steer Kit: 15 911 Turbo Tie Rod End: 90 bucks 22m Effective Rate Front Torsion Bar set, hollow; 300 Elephant racing suspension bushings, front/rear: 550 Any idea what I can cut out and what I should keep? Trying to replace some stuff early so it won't cut out on me later if I am autocrossing but still not sure of what truly needs modification and what doesn't. if you've got a running, driving car, then you don't need any of this stuff. I'm curious why you've got engine parts on the list if you've got a fresh motor. definitely DON'T start buying parts for things that aren't broken -- you'll spend enough money just keeping it running and upgrading one piece at a time. As JP said, tires and suspension are the best bang for your buck. but just run the car as it is for at least a few AXs -- getting seat time is obviously the best 'upgrade' you could make to the car. also, things like a competition airdam look great, but won't make you one iota faster on an AX course, if that's where you see yourself. welcome to the club! |
DanT |
Jun 17 2006, 10:39 AM
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#8
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) JP and Nathan
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grantsfo |
Jun 17 2006, 11:09 AM
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#9
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
What JP says tires (Hoosiers or Kuhmo 710 for DOT R - Falken Azenis Sports for Street) and seat time but here's what I would do.
In priority Bilsteins Adjustable coilover collars for rear shocks 180 lb springs 22 mm front bar Bumpsteer kit Ball Joints Turbo tie rods Align the car with as much negative camber as you can get Harness bar and 5 point harness Momo Sport steering wheel Then go after wieght savings: Pull sound mats on fire wall behind the seats and in the engine compartment if they are still there. Scrape out floor tar with heat gun Fiberglass bumpers Fiberglass hood and trunk Engine: If you have carbs without a cam get the cam I would get a tuna can for a little more protection in AX If youre not attached to heat - throw some good headers on the car - less weight and they should give you even more power. Stiffening: I'd go with either a roll cage or the tub stiffening kit - a lightweight 4 really doesnt need trailing arm reinforcements unless the arms have been weakened due to rust. Skip the following: Short shift kit Boxed trailing arm kit Rear swaybar Fiberglass flares Cross drilled brake rotors - just get good Porterfield pads and use standard rotors |
Virgil |
Jun 17 2006, 11:29 AM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 7-June 06 From: South Korea Member No.: 6,182 |
I know, just wanting to fill it out a little aestetically to my tastes thats all. I ride a bike and same goes for the bike, u might have the fastest bike on the planet, but theres always that old guy on a 2-stroke 500cc that is gonna stuff your ass in the turns then lap u before u can say "WTF?!". Valentino Rossi (7 time MotoGP champion) got his start small and now he is the fastest man on two wheels (same could be said for Micheal S., Sebastian Loeb, and Peter Solberg) Tires is what i am starting with, I will know what size wheels those are tommorow and hope I can find a set of toyos that I can enjoy (I truly hate Kumho's, VERY long story). They are the number 1 mod to a car, changing pretty much every characteristic, I was just running a few numbers to were I want the car in the long term. Like I said, its a father-son pet project, we both love these cars and both share a passion for them. My philosophy normally lends to fixing something before it breaks or if u can fixing it more so then it was before; essentially overengineering the car so its dead nutz reliable when u truly want to get crazy with it.
Tires Suspension Alignment Sounds like a good plac to start and I will take your advice. Power wise i am actually pretty certain that this car won't be a slouch with the mods done to it as it is, not a fire breathing race car but no slouch, the 914 is a momentum car anyway, if I want power I will stick a WRX motor in it and call it a day (which breeds a whole NEW set of issues with it). More looking for bang for your buck reliablity and chassis reinforcement mods right now and lightening things up goes a long way to takeing stress of the chassis. However, grippier tires tends to put a new monkey in the wrench as your corner speeds go up and therefore the stress stays about the same. Either way, tires it is, Falken makes a good tire and so does Toyo but I hope to avoid Kumho's if I can all together. |
ConeDodger |
Jun 17 2006, 12:21 PM
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#11
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,580 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California |
So far I have this totaled up: Front/Rear Bilstein shocks: 550 for front/rear Front Cross-Drilled Rotors from Pelican: 85.00 Weltmiester Short Shift Kit: 102.00 Elephant Racing Tire rub kit: 75.00 (2) Turbo Tie Rod and Install Tool: 250.00 Firberglass GT Flares: 450.00 914 Ultimate Airdam from Pelican: 200.00 Touring Seats from Renegade (require core seats): 450 bucks SS Brake Lines: 60 bucks Boxed Trailing Arm kit: 130 Oil Pressure Booster Kit: 30.00 Heavy Duty Oil Pump: 170 914-4 Webcam Performance Lifters: 150 Replacement Intake/Exhaust valves: 30 bucks Replacement Intake Exhaust valve guides: 10 bucks Heavy Duty Valve Spring Set: 10 bucks Web-Cam Carbureted Performance Camshaft: 170 Elephant Raceing Low Friction Control Arm Mounts: 200 bucks Ball Joints: 70 bucks Elephant Racing front monoball cartridge set: 250 Rear 180 Autocross springs: 120 Weltmiester Front/Rear Swaybars: 600 bucks Bumb Steer Kit: 15 911 Turbo Tie Rod End: 90 bucks 22m Effective Rate Front Torsion Bar set, hollow; 300 Elephant racing suspension bushings, front/rear: 550 Any idea what I can cut out and what I should keep? Trying to replace some stuff early so it won't cut out on me later if I am autocrossing but still not sure of what truly needs modification and what doesn't. Nice car... I think the first thing you need to do is have your parents hide your wallet. Don't buy any of this stuff yet. I agree with JP completely. My suggestions are to drive the car at every event you can. Seat time, seat time, seat time. Tighten the nut behind the wheel or all of the money you spend will be pretty frustrating. Tires make the biggest modification bang for the buck. It sounds as if the motor is well sorted and fairly fresh so why open it to put a cam in? It will not make more than a fraction of a second difference over the 45 - 60 seconds you spend on an autocross course. My advice is that until you have basketweave impressions on your ass, put your wallet away. Rob |
grantsfo |
Jun 17 2006, 01:02 PM
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#12
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
Oh yeah what ever you budget multiply it by 2. You will find other issues as you tear into the car.
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Bleyseng |
Jun 17 2006, 01:59 PM
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#13
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,034 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Tires and good rims first
Koni Yellows second, these you can set to full hard when you get to the AX and stiffen up the car to have some fun. Corner balance and alignment third Good Pads is all you need and a good brake fluid. The rest is fluff until you drive for awhile. Where do you live in Wash? Definately your Dad should come to the WCC and hook with all us other idiots and take notes. Note: He should stay away from JP as his advice costs big $$$ |
J P Stein |
Jun 17 2006, 04:00 PM
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#14
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Hate Kumhos? I can't imagine why.....you have lots of time to tell us the story (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
R6 Hoosiers are maybe as good as 710 Kuhmos. Both of these are heads & shoulders above any other R spec tiar for AX. Your car sure looks alot like Dave Said's old ride....right down to the polished motor. If it were you wouldn't be asking these questions tho. Geoff: I don't recall urging anyone to dump a pee pot fulla money into one of these shitboxes....can't say I tried to talk em' out of it either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I take that back. I tried to talk G Chapman into saving a few bucks.....that didn't happen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Now I tell him he needs more tiar iff'n he's gonna catch me......that's a heap of change the way he does things (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) |
Virgil |
Jun 18 2006, 03:07 AM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 7-June 06 From: South Korea Member No.: 6,182 |
I know what my priorities are, just got to get the right stuff, I most likely NOT go for such a huge project cost as when I get down to it, I have an E30 M3 at my heart of hearts as well, I love these cars but something about that Bimmer turns my crank. Tires and suspenion is probably all I will do.
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Joe Ricard |
Jun 18 2006, 07:30 PM
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#16
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CUMONIWANNARACEU Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 |
I agree with:
JP Dan Nathan Geoff AND MOST OF ALL ROB Drive what ya got and stay in a stockish class. these car are plenty fast with decent tires. I on the other hand have gone whole HOG nuts with my car. |
J P Stein |
Jun 18 2006, 07:48 PM
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#17
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Ok, fess up damnit.
Who here has EVER AXed a totaly stock 914.....futher...Who here has EVER AXed a 914 that was exactly as you first bought it? Allowable mods: gas, oil, air for the tiars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I have a pic of a stock 914 AXing here somewhere.........ah yes, one of my favorites. Attached image(s) |
grantsfo |
Jun 18 2006, 10:22 PM
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#18
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
Ok, fess up damnit. Who here has EVER AXed a totaly stock 914.....futher...Who here has EVER AXed a 914 that was exactly as you first bought it? Allowable mods: gas, oil, air for the tiars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I have a pic of a stock 914 AXing here somewhere.........ah yes, one of my favorites. ...I have. Here's mine in its stock glory about 5 years ago. ...Thats my wife behind the wheel! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-2-1121994608.jpg) |
Trekkor |
Jun 18 2006, 11:12 PM
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#19
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
First a/x back in April -04.
Slippery slope- Whe- e- e- e- e- e- e e e e!!! I've done a few mods... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) KT Attached image(s) |
Joe Ricard |
Jun 19 2006, 05:37 AM
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#20
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CUMONIWANNARACEU Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 |
OK I AXed my car for 3 events the way I bought it. Yes I bought it modded but that is what I wanted.
Then I started listening to JP. and the slope got slipperier than I could ever dream. So nobody runs a stock 914 which explains why the 914 is still in C-stock and nobody cares. JP you are right most 914's would never pass a true tech for stock class. the concours cars excepted probably won't autocross. |
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