Reputation: DeVito's in Orange, CA. PPI?, Trying to buy long distance Options

[smj]

My apologies if this is the wrong forum...

I've been talking to Jeff DeVito, of DeVito's Porsche Service in Orange, California, about a -6 conversion he has for sale. Anybody familiar with him and his shop? He's asking for cash -- won't accept a bank teller/cashier's check -- and I have to say this makes me kindof nervous about the whole deal... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

A PPI would be appreciated, but I'm unclear how exactly that would work through this group... Was also playing with the idea of picking it up this weekend (before I was given the cash-only requirement), which doesn't really leave any time. I did have my local mechanic (Bauer Porsche; Oakland, CA) talk to him about how the hotrod 2.7 motor was built, the chassis stripped and stiffened. etc. All good within the limitations of a phone call.

Anyway, any advice appreciated.

Other info:

Asking price $14k
eBay auction that failed to make reserve here.

The oil cooler would be moved. The 2.7 lump would be replaced with a 3.0 or 3.2 to meet smog requirements. But in terms of chassis and body, he's already done what I'd do to my 74 914-4, aside from paint color.

[magaoidh]

Take care!

[Lectronix]

Hi - He made me nervous as well.

The car was listed to be perfect, but it has flaws. If he's now asking $14k, that $2k less than he started. I offered $12k, but something about the deal doesn't feel right. I just think the car should be cleaner, specially coming from a Porsche mechanic.

That's my opinion. Good luck!

[Joe Bob]

He was rather abrupt...pretty dumb to convert a 76 in CA when all the other model years were exempt...

[Heeltoe914]

Add up the sum of parts and what you think you can get for saling the motor. Are you ahead???. If so and the motor and car is what you wont OK. But what is your plan to get around the smog? If that car has been flagged, you will have a problem. I sale cars and also only ask for cash. I have paid upwards of 15K. Cash to a seller. Many sellers and buyers are that way.
The problem is dose the person really understand what he or she is getting. Its not a new car where everything should be perfect. It’s a very old car anything can and will happen.
Dose it mean you where mislead maybe, maybe not. So most important for me is if I am not comfortable with the seller I walk
.

[smj]

Thanks for the feedback, guys, I really appreciate it.

But what is your plan to get around the smog? If that car has been flagged, you will have a problem.

My plan was to remove and replace the 2.7l motor with a later 3.0 or 3.2l as they have fewer smog-related bits, and I could get them with the engine. But what's this about the car being "flagged" by the DMV? Would this still be an issue after replacing the motor?

[Joe Bob]

Not sure if "Flagging" is an appropriate term.....vehicles can get labelled as a "Gross Polluter". But that's only if it got busted by a road side monitor or blows way high on a smog check at the tail pipe...but it woulda failed visual first......

LEGALLY...the seller has to provide a smog cert on sale. Since he can't.......it's an illegal car to sell in CA.....Best to call AAA and run the plate...if not a member, you should be with a 914. YOU WILL have problems with DMV on this car in CA.

Dunno if DMV will run it for you....they can be real dicks.

A 76 914 will have to pass a BAR inspection even if a 3.0 with FI is installed. It will need to compy with the ENGINE's year of manufacture smog equipment.

[smj]

The vehicle has been registered as Non-Operational for the past four years or so. I was told that it had creatively gotten by smog requirements for a couple years, but after a while that was no longer feasible. Not for me to detail in a public forum, but nothing we haven't all heard of before.

Interesting point on the smog cert being required for a legal sale, I confess I didn't think of that. I just figured it would have to pass a smog check to get registered. That does give me pause, if the paperwork would get jammed up even if it did pass a test before I went to the DMV...

On the 3.x motor swap, I fully expected to have to meet the appropriate regs and limits for the year of manufacture for the motor. But that's really just dependent on the motor being complete and working properly, no? I mean, if I take the motor out of my 944 and put in in another car, I still expect it to pass emissions the same as it does now -- assuming I don't damage it, hook something up wrong, or what have you.

And finally: yes, I have AAA -- the Plus level with 100 mile towing. I try to never leave the house without that card no matter what I'm driving...

[Joe Bob]

I've done a few legal swaps on 76 and newer rides....my 83 has a 93 motor in it.

EVERYTHING has to on the older car....IF it had it on the newer car....check engine lights, OBDI/II ports, engines from an automatic equipped car can't go in stick cars if it wasn't smogged or sold as such...it ain't easy....then you have the exhaust....you are going from an assdragger to a mid engine....most likely will need a cat and an air pump...woohoo....

[smj]

EVERYTHING has to on the older car....IF it had it on the newer car....check engine lights, OBDI/II ports, ...it ain't easy...

And this would not be the case if, say, I were doing a swap from scratch on my '74 because it's smog exempt? In other words these are smog-related requirements, and not some kind of DMV engine-swap rules, right?

I appreciate all this good info, by the way. I'll stand y'all to a beer if I get the chance.

[Joe Bob]

EVERYTHING has to on the older car....IF it had it on the newer car....check engine lights, OBDI/II ports, ...it ain't easy...

And this would not be the case if, say, I were doing a swap from scratch on my '74 because it's smog exempt? In other words these are smog-related requirements, and not some kind of DMV engine-swap rules, right?

I appreciate all this good info, by the way. I'll stand y'all to a beer if I get the chance.

Not smog exempt...just exempt form inspection.....

BTW...I'll be at the Hotel Durant next month....July 16-19th.

[smj]

So I'm still a bit unsure here... Cash only isn't so bad in and of itself, agreed; I just really didn't like being surprised with it as a hard requirement.

I'm confident that with the application of cash, a 911SC motor (for example) with appropriate smog controls can be dropped in and pass any emissions test that it would in a 911. However the DMV site does say the seller has to provide a smog cert. They don't mention an exception for Non-Operational vehicles (e.g. parked, no plates, but still registered with the DMV as is the case here).

Assuming I can make it pass emissions with all controls and systems appropriate to the year of the motor, do you think I'll have grief from the DMV? I mean, if I show up with a smog test report, are they going to care about the dates?

I'd love to hear more about the "flaws" that Lectronix mentioned... Especially since half the reason for my interest in this car is that it's supposed to have been stripped to bare metal, be free of rot, and have had the reinforcement and suspension upgrades that I want. Having the -6 conversion already done is the other half. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Heeltoe914]

Yes what some call flagged is also a gross polluter. It’s not easy to get out of that. If within a short time you are going to drop in a 3.0L this conversation on smog is mute. You just can’t drive the car until all is done referee visits, Paperwork etc. I have to ask do you have a 3.0 setting at home or do you plan on just picking one up? Motors are not cheap at all. I would say min. 5K. So if you are going into this car at 12K plus 5K plus emotional heartache with DMV 2K. You are looking at a 17K car. That’s if you are doing all the work on your own. Why not be patient and wait for another opportunity to come along? IMHO

[914-8]

I just figured it would have to pass a smog check to get registered.

You can't just show up at a smog station for a test with an engine transplant car.

You have to first pass the BAR referee, if you pass their inspection, you will be given a BAR sticker that goes on the car.

My car has one of those on it. It essentially identifies the new engine and all the smog control that are on it. That's what the smog test station will need to see.

[smj]

Okay, let me first apologize if these engine swap issues are all laid out in the conversion threads elsewhere. I think I read through the main conversion article over at Pelican, but didn't recall all this stuff about BAR referees and whatnot - probably since they're more or less CA-specific.

Would the same paperwork and inspections be required for a 70-75 model year car? Or are these things required, but since the (bi-)annual certificates aren't required for pre-76 cars those owners just keep their head down and ignore the technicalities?

[Lectronix]

Hey Steve:

I replied to your email. You can post my thoughts on here if you like.

I did forget to mention the smog; he said it was not legal and that for a $200-$400 he would have someone illegal pass the smog. Again, the amount for doing this is ridiculous and the thought of having this haning over one's head is not worth it. Again - this is my opinion.

[Heeltoe914]

CHECK THIS OUT BEN

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914...1QQcmdZViewItem


OR EBAY # 200000758501

[smj]

I've decided not to buy Jeff DeVito's car. Even though I have the money, in the end my total cost would be within a couple grand of some of the concours-clean conversions with all the California paperwork done.

Jeff was very reasonable and understanding on the phone and did not pressure me in any way, FWIW. If you're interested, feel free to contact him. In fact, I think I'll put that in a separate thread just to keep things clear.

[metroe]

There is a way to get around the smog problem and that is to register the car as a "Historial Vehicle". If you check the DMV regs you will see smog not required. But be prepared to fight with DMV like I did. After they read the reg they will agree....

[Joe Bob]

I would love to see the documentation where a Historical Vehicle is smog exempt.....I'm pretty sure that it's not an option. I tried that dodge....