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> Can I make an A/F mixture gauge?, using an O2 sensor and such...
drewvw
post Jun 27 2006, 07:03 AM
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being the cheapo that I am, what would it take to build a A/F ratio tool out of an O2 sensor I could put in the tail pipe and connect it to some sort of gauge

Has an anybody done this? Suggestions are welcome....
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type47
post Jun 27 2006, 07:21 AM
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O2 sensor puts out millivolts, i think, so you could put a galvanometer on it and then calibrate it.
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Jeroen
post Jun 27 2006, 07:26 AM
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from what I understood, such a device is useless unless you use a wideband O2 sensor ($$$$$$)
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drewvw
post Jun 27 2006, 07:30 AM
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I think you are right, I've seen some topics talking about wideband sensors.


If I can't build one...where can I buy one and how much?
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eric914
post Jun 27 2006, 07:38 AM
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A narrow band O2 sensor will put out 0-1volt. The problem with a narrow band sensor is it is acts like a switch (see graph below) If you really want to tune with the sensor you will need to get a wideband O2 sensor. There are many compnies out there that make the required interface modules. These run between $150 and $300. Try searching "wideband O2". I built a 2Eo kit from TechEdge. This is a Australian company. With the slide in the exchange rate though there are other cheeper alternatives out there.


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lapuwali
post Jun 27 2006, 08:47 AM
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On wideband: Innovate makes the LM-1, which is $350, and includes a display and data logging. They also make the LC-1, which is $200 (including a sensor and a weld-in bung), but doesn't have a display. You can program the LC-1 to display on a voltmeter, including an LED voltmeter you can build yourself for $10 or so.

For about $45, you can buy a narrowband sensor and make the same LED voltmeter mentioned above. At stated, the narrowband isn't really useful unless you're only trying to tune to 14.7:1, which you will not want to do on Type IV.
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ptravnic
post Jun 27 2006, 09:08 AM
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My $0.02

The LM1 seems to be the cheapest route. $350 is not lunch money but if you think about spending a couple hours worth of shop time @ the going rate for a tech to dyno and/or dial in your air/fuel mixture the shop time will likely run about $150 to $200. If you own the device you can do it over and over and over on other engines, friends engines (who'll likely not pay you with $ but will be greatful...), and you'll know that you can do another thing on your car.

I'm on the cusp of doing this myself - maybe we'll learn together.

-pt
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drewvw
post Jun 27 2006, 09:13 AM
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thanks pete....i also found a couple online for a bit cheaper

check out this one...

linky
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ptravnic
post Jun 27 2006, 09:19 AM
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QUOTE(drewvw @ Jun 27 2006, 07:13 AM) *

thanks pete....i also found a couple online for a bit cheaper

check out this one...

linky



Kewl!!! Keep me posted if you scoop one up. I'll do the same w/you.

-pt
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lapuwali
post Jun 27 2006, 09:23 AM
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Drew, read carefully. The Zt thing is not cheaper, but quite a bit more expensive. The $279 deal is basically the same as the LC-1 (no display), which is only $200 from Innovate. The LCD display they have is extra. The full unit with the display is $400.
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drewvw
post Jun 27 2006, 09:25 AM
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right on...I am going to email and make sure I can buy the 279 version and just hook it up to a laptop...
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ptravnic
post Jun 27 2006, 09:30 AM
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Just realized the $279 version does not include the LCD display... W/the LCD is $399... Back to the LM1 price... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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john rogers
post Jun 27 2006, 09:33 AM
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I used the tech article on the Pelican site for making an A/F indicator about 7 years ago and it still works great. It is in our 1987 930 and is handy to tell you if the engine goes lean at full boost. In my race car I use one I bought from Summit Racing. The leds on the home made one in the 930 are more convienent as I have to take more time to actually check the meter and the green/amber/red colors show out of the corner of my eye easily.
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drewvw
post Jun 27 2006, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE(ptravnic @ Jun 27 2006, 08:30 AM) *

Just realized the $279 version does not include the LCD display... W/the LCD is $399... Back to the LM1 price... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)



thats true, but I just emailed them and it plugs into a laptop and displays realtime.

which works for my needs
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lapuwali
post Jun 27 2006, 10:43 AM
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It works for your needs, but Innovate will sell you the same thing for $200. The Innovate is also a smaller package, and it's been shown to be sufficiently heat-proof that it can be mounted in the rear trunk (which gets plenty hot). Ask the Zt2 guys what the heat tolerance of their unit is.
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Dave_Darling
post Jun 27 2006, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE(eric914 @ Jun 27 2006, 06:38 AM) *

A narrow band O2 sensor will put out 0-1volt. The problem with a narrow band sensor is it is acts like a switch (see graph below) ...


Better yet, the slope of the lines on the graph is very heavily temperature-dependant! So when the engine is cold, it may tell you that you're at 14.6:1, and when the engine is warm for the exact same mixture it might tell you that you're at 13.7:1!

Which ain't no way to tune...

--DD
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Mark Henry
post Jun 27 2006, 11:30 AM
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I have the WMS and I like it way better than the LM-1, It uses a better lambda, auto calibrates every time, has a small display with big numbers, you can download it to a PC and will and it will do a simple data log. $400.
http://sdsefi.com/wmsmm.htm

I also have a used NB haltech 30 that I'll sell for $75
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drewvw
post Jun 27 2006, 12:13 PM
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Mark,

PM sent about your old one...
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Mark Henry
post Jun 27 2006, 01:20 PM
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I'll give Drew dibs for now at $75 plus $10 shipping

It's a Haltec AF30 narrow band from Gene Berg

Lambda, 30 led reader, Berg instructions and aprox 10' homemade wiring extension.

It needs a 4-prong trailer light connector, a 3amp in-line fuse and a couple of connectors, plus some simple wiring to make it work. I stole that part (homemade) when I did my FI system. It worked fine last time I used it, spring last year.

I'll post pics tonight...camera is in wife's car.

That said... now that I have a WB I'd never use (or buy) a NB again. But I did tune 50+ engines with it and never blew one up.
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groot
post Jun 27 2006, 02:17 PM
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So, understanding that these wide band sensors cost some $$, what makes up the bulk of that cost? Is it the sensor or the rest of the bits (display, etc)?

I understand that wide band sensors are being used in OEM applications and I may be able to free up a few from their resting places.....

I already have data logging and I'm wondering if I can just connect a wide band oxygen sensor to my data system.
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