GGR AX #5 today, very challenging course Options

[DanT]

Today was our 5th AX this season and this was a challenging course.
914 drivers were in the hunt all day.
Andrew B looks to have TTOD sewn up yet again.
BillP and Randal driving Fritz (the tail dragger) were in the top 5 as well as Steve Nieslony in his 914 AX light weight car.
I am pretty sure I was in the top 15 with my 2.0L (160K mile) motor. Thank goodness for a well set up suspension. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The motor certainly isn't helping my cause any (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Only other 914s in attendance were Billd in his stockish 2.0L on street tires and a black 914-6 that I know nothing about other than the driver is on a learning curve (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So more than likely we had 4 914 drivers (two sharing a tail dragger) in the top 5 or 6. Official results should be out in a day or two along with some pics.

Times ranged from a low :42 by AndrewB to high 47s for the really fast crowd and then the rest.
The interesting part of todays course was that the majority of fast times were recorded by the older Porsches be they 914s or 911s. Probably only 2 or possibly 3 newer cars in the top 10.
But again we will see what the official times look like.

[Trekkor]

Sorry I missed it.
I was working in the yard all day in the 100 degree heat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

KT

[nebreitling]

thanks for the report, dan. i'm waiting for Fritz to challenge the Smurf for TTOD. given some time for Bill and Randal to get used to the car in a tight course, i think think they've got a good chance.

[DanT]

With the right course and their continued learning of the car, I think either or both can come up with TTOD over Andrew.

I was in 3rd for almost 1/2 of todays course, BillP had Fritz in 3rd at least in one spot.

With some time and possibly a course that is set up a little wider, I think the smurfmobile could go down.

I am anxiously awaiting todays results. Hopefully they will be up in a day or two like the last couple events. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[grantsfo]

It was a perfect AX day. Fast course with a nice 360 degree loop, traditional fast sweeper on back part of the course, technical stuff on the return that really slowed down the big cars. Great attendance with what I think was over 100 drivers. Lots of the fast drivers there as well.

I think TTOD was in high 42 or low 43 sec Both Andrew and Steve were ripping up the course with Bill and Randal close behind. I left before last runs were completed so I'm not sure what happend. Bunch of real fast mortals in 46-47 sec range.

Had a blast driving my big 3700 lb Mazda sedan on the skinny 215/45/18 street tires and terribly soft suspension. I was able to put together an ugly 50 second run - I just couldnt get smooth and kept over cooking turns.

Didnt see you, Dan, other than when you were driving - was able to snap a picture of you driving. Your car sure looked nice. Its a great example of a clean well sorted AX car. ...man that thing is low!

[grantsfo]

One more

[Randal]

thanks for the report, dan. i'm waiting for Fritz to challenge the Smurf for TTOD. given some time for Bill and Randal to get used to the car in a tight course, i think think they've got a good chance.

As Dan mentioned it was a tough course (by the way Dan's car is really beautiful).

I didn't talk with anyone that really learned it within the normal two runs. I personally never got close to a well driven clean run, so we left a lot of time out there..

Interesting that you mention the "tight course.” There is another new dimension, i.e., the course yesterday was 20 feet wide in most places.

I was talking to one of the Autocross chairs and he said this is now STANDARD.

Guess they have never read the official autox guide by Roger, i.e., the SCCA guide, which of course I’m going to be sending them..

Also the thing that I realized yesterday watching and timing all the fast guys was that a light weight 914 will always turn faster than a heaver car. You just have to watch them through the slalom course to see it. Also ask Grant who was driving a tank (but fast I might mention) about the slalom course. He was really having to work.

And if you didn't count a few cones that jumped in front of the car when Bill and I were driving, I think we've made considerable progress on at least Steve. Bill’s car was definitely a mid 42 second car, which Bill finally got close to (42.9) on his last run before he had a 2 cone bobble (last turn).

Funny, but I had my fastest time, abet with a few cones before the timing box (ugly! / Bill’s car is definitely wider than my 914) with a tire that had deflated. The car must have jumped sideways on the sweeper (very fast) about 3 feet.

And MAN, was it hot up there, but all in all a great day.

[Randal]

[quote name='grantsfo' post='723057' date='Jul 9 2006, 07:25 AM']
It was a perfect AX day. Fast course with a nice 360 degree loop, traditional fast sweeper on back part of the course, technical stuff on the return that really slowed down the big cars. Great attendance with what I think was over 100 drivers. Lots of the fast drivers there as well.

I think TTOD was in high 42 or low 43 sec Both Andrew and Steve were ripping up the course with Bill and Randal close behind. I left before last runs were completed so I'm not sure what happend. Bunch of real fast mortals in 46-47 sec range.

Had a blast driving my big 3700 lb Mazda sedan on the skinny 215/45/18 street tires and terribly soft suspension. I was able to put together an ugly 50 second run - I just couldnt get smooth and kept over cooking turns.

Didnt see you, Dan, other than when you were driving - was able to snap a picture of you driving. Your car sure looked nice. Its a great example of a clean well sorted AX car. ...man that thing is low!





"man that thing is low!"

Ha, everyone thinks he is cheating. Pretty funny.

[Randal]

[quote name='Randal' date='Jul 9 2006, 08:30 AM' post='723075']
[quote name='grantsfo' post='723057' date='Jul 9 2006, 07:25 AM']
It was a perfect AX day. Fast course with a nice 360 degree loop, traditional fast sweeper on back part of the course, technical stuff on the return that really slowed down the big cars. Great attendance with what I think was over 100 drivers. Lots of the fast drivers there as well.

I think TTOD was in high 42 or low 43 sec Both Andrew and Steve were ripping up the course with Bill and Randal close behind. I left before last runs were completed so I'm not sure what happend. Bunch of real fast mortals in 46-47 sec range.

Had a blast driving my big 3700 lb Mazda sedan on the skinny 215/45/18 street tires and terribly soft suspension. I was able to put together an ugly 50 second run - I just couldnt get smooth and kept over cooking turns.

Didnt see you, Dan, other than when you were driving - was able to snap a picture of you driving. Your car sure looked nice. Its a great example of a clean well sorted AX car. ...man that thing is low!





"man that thing is low!"

Ha, everyone thinks he is cheating. Pretty funny.
[/quote]


Now this is a wide car!

[DanT]

Thanks for the nice pics Grant. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I saw you running also but never got a chance to find you in the paddock.

Yea, your car was really leaning and screaming on those skinny tires. 50 sec run would have been ripping on a street car with that size tires.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
There were lots of newer Porsches that never got down to 50 secs.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[grantsfo]

Ha, everyone thinks he is cheating. Pretty funny.

Anyone who watches Dan's car closely would know it has a below average 2.0 engine. Its certainly not a fast car its just nicely buttoned down. Similar to my car when I had the 1.8. He is turning similar times in refrence to TTOD as my old stock powered 1.8 car. Yesterdays course was definitely a light narrow car course despite the drag strip sections. It took all the concentration I had to keep my big car between the gates while I under full accleration.

[Randal]

Ha, everyone thinks he is cheating. Pretty funny.

Anyone who watches Dan's car closely would know it has a below average 2.0. Its certainly not a fast car its just nicely buttoned down. Similar to my car when I had the 1.8. He is turning similar times in refrence to TTOD as my old stock powered 1.8 car. Yesterdays course was definitely a light narrow car course despite the drag strip sections. It took all the concentration I had to keep my car between the gates while I under full accleration.

I'll bet you were having fun through that tight section right after the button hook before the first slalom.

[nebreitling]

i don't understand the super-narrow course stuff... i have a car that really works in that enviornment -- and i still hate it. a course should be wide enough that it is open for interpretation, imho.

[Trekkor]

Sounds like I missed another good one.


KT

[grantsfo]

All the pics are up on GGR site! http://www.pca-ggr.org/photo.cgi

Nice one of Bill's car.

(IMG:http://www.dleong.org/2006/ax/ax5/images/DSC_1383.jpg)

and my battleship

[Chris Hamilton]

The day's competiton was very good. Andrew and Steve were really getting down there in the times, looked like it was going to be a close finish, which indeed it was.

Close enough in fact that this should motivate Lee to take drastic measures and put a racing engine in the car. The current 2.0 in it is smooth, however it's been over 100k miles since the bottom end was rebuilt, and it really is just a street engine like in our daily driving 914s.

[grantsfo]

The day's competiton was very good. Andrew and Steve were really getting down there in the times, looked like it was going to be a close finish, which indeed it was.

Close enough in fact that this should motivate Lee to take drastic measures and put a racing engine in the car. The current 2.0 in it is smooth, however it's been over 100k miles since the bottom end was rebuilt, and it really is just a street engine like in our daily driving 914s.

I noticed in PAX the car has displacement listed as 2295 cc. I had always assumed the engine in that car was pushing bigger displacement than stock. If its a 2.0 I would love to know what has been done to the top end to get so much power! I havent seen too many 100,000 mile daily driver 2.0's that can smoke fat sticky race tires off the line like the smurfmobile can! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DanT]

The day's competiton was very good. Andrew and Steve were really getting down there in the times, looked like it was going to be a close finish, which indeed it was.

Close enough in fact that this should motivate Lee to take drastic measures and put a racing engine in the car. The current 2.0 in it is smooth, however it's been over 100k miles since the bottom end was rebuilt, and it really is just a street engine like in our daily driving 914s.

I noticed in PAX the car has displacement listed as 2295 cc. I had always assumed the engine in that car was pushing bigger displacement than stock. If its a 2.0 I would love to know what has been done to the top end to get so much power! I havent seen too many 100,000 mile daily driver 2.0's that can smoke fat sticky race tires off the line like the smurfmobile can! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Grant, that car must weigh like 1200lbs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) or there abouts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Randal]

i don't understand the super-narrow course stuff... i have a car that really works in that enviornment -- and i still hate it. a course should be wide enough that it is open for interpretation, imho.

Right.

If you take the time to read and understand the design book, a course should flow, but be challenging; utilizing smarter lines rewarded.

You don't do this by making a sea of cones, narrow courses, trick sections that only a few understand or courses that favor one car or another. As a designer you have a responsibility to make the course fair for everyone that will be racing.

You also want people to learn to drive, not be frustrated.

To design a good course, as outlined in the SCCA manual:

http://home.houston.rr.com/rogerthereal

takes a lot of time; it isn't a job that gets finished quickly.

I liked the challenge the course represented yesterday. The designer did a good job, in some cases really brilliant - as the corners after the button hook, but I think the designer could still learn by reading the above manual.

[grantsfo]

i don't understand the super-narrow course stuff... i have a car that really works in that enviornment -- and i still hate it. a course should be wide enough that it is open for interpretation, imho.

Right.

If you take the time to read and understand the design book, a course should flow, but be challenging; utilizing smarter lines rewarded.

You don't do this by making a sea of cones, narrow courses, trick sections that only a few understand or courses that favor one car or another. As a designer you have a responsibility to make the course fair for everyone that will be racing.

You also want people to learn to drive, not be frustrated.

To design a good course, as outlined in the SCCA manual:

http://home.houston.rr.com/rogerthereal

takes a lot of time; it isn't a job that gets finished quickly.

I liked the challenge the course represented yesterday. The designer did a good job, in some cases really brilliant - as the corners after the button hook, but I think the designer could still learn by reading the above manual.

I agree. I have driven SCCA events now and their courses are challenging, yet much more open and intuitive (no sea of cone syndrome or too narrow gates). I always enjoy courses that flow and are challenging as opposed to those that close you in and dont flow well. This weekends course had great elements, but was a little narrow in places.