GROUP BUY Programmable electronic fuel injection (, Is anyone interested in a SDS Group buy? Options

[JeffBowlsby]

A stock DJet FI harness takes ME most of a day to fab. and I have made many of them, I have the correct templates, tools, and parts at my fingertips.

I suspect the harness they provide will be primitive...no casing or rubber boots, maybe Im wrong, I have not lloked at theire details. If its been made specifically for the 914 then we would hope it would at least be functional, if only basic. If it were going on MY car though...I would probably redo the harness but thats just me.

[Mark Henry]

basic system FI only

[JeffBowlsby]

"The EM-4 ECU uses 4 connectors arranged on one side. The left plug is for injector drive wires and options. The DB25 connector is for sensor, ignition trigger wires and ECU power. The DB9, 2nd from the right, is for the Hall sensor connection and the far right DB9 is for the LCD programmer. Complete main wiring harness and injector harness are supplied, made to your custom specs if desired along with Hall sensor and LCD programmer cord. Standard main harnesses and injector drive harnesses are 6 feet long from ECU to most sensors, Hall sensor cables are 7 feet standard. Programmer cable from ECU to programmer is 6 feet. Please note that there will be a $30US/ $45CDN additional charge for custom length wiring harnesses as of Jan.1/03 and that custom harnesses will usually delay orders an additional day or so."

SDS apparently supplies 'standard' 6 foot long harnesses-what 'made to your specs' means is not clear. The photos show the injector harnesses without boots or casing, both of which are critical to long term performance of the system, but it wouold cost alot more for them to make it up.

I would jump at the chance to make up the harness for this system...I can see how it would look sah-weet.

[Mark Henry]

Jeff,
One thing I also noticed was they don't recommend mounting the ECU in the engine bay. I think the main reason is this unit is not waterproof. You might get around this mounting it in an old d-jet ECU case, but the next question is will this affect its heatsink abilities?

[jonwatts]

Mount the ECU in a rubbermaid food storage box (I've seen this done). It does pose an interesting question of where the best place to mount an ECU in a 914 might be. I'm not in agreement that under the battery tray is the best place. Nor is under the passenger's seat because of how our cars leak. I might put mine behind the passenger's seat on the firewall.

Mark, I don't think you can go too wrong with any of the systems you are looking at, but I think having the car down for only 2 weekends and tuning it before turn 1 on the race track are a bit off the reality scale. If you call adjusting the overall timing value as "tuning" then just cut a hole in your firewall, reach back there with a nomex glove and adjust your dizzy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Mueller, what's the status of the Palm Pilot software some folks were writing for the MegaSquirt? If it's useable this would be an excellent (and still the cheapest) non-PC PEFI setup out there.

[chunger]

MS system is fun. . .

Having no experience soldering circuit boards (I have soldered for guitar repairs and audio/video installs) and no knowledge of circuits, I built the computer in 1 night. . . ~8 hours (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) but my back and butt hurt. . . and the thing worked perfectly on the stim module. Instructions and schematics were intuitive. . . even though I'd never read a circuit diagram before.

I bought another one (2nd Gen.) that will go into my car. SBC w/ mpfi.

-'Chung

[914Timo]

I have soldered quite a many circuit boards and would love to make one for my ´51 Split Window Bug. I have 1776 ccm engine with Dellortos for it and I would like to chance those carburators to MS.

I even once tried to order one, but never get any reply. If somebody here have one un-built kit, I could be very interested in to buy it.

[JeffBowlsby]

You might get around this mounting it in an old d-jet ECU case, but the next question is will this affect its heatsink abilities?

Dont know frankly. I might look at mounting the new ECU in the original ECU box, but you might have to cut out access holes (at the bottom of the original ECU box) to install the plug connectors into the new ECU, if my understanding of the SDS boxs' dimensions and plugs are right. The oversized hole could allow adequate ventialtion and still give water protection.

ANother location might be to mount the new ECU on the sloped surface at the rear of the rear trunk (towards the front of the car).

I studied the wiring schematics...a new harness could be made to use the fuel pump relay and connections off the stock relay plate. Aside from abandoning the MPS, I think the install could almost be a perfect sleeper and look almost completely stock.

[airsix]

Heat dissipation is definitely an issue. The little transistors that drive the injectors get mighty warm. They are mounted to a heat sink (usually the metal case) and it needs to be exposed to free air. I think mounting in a rubbermaind box might be trouble. The documentation for my MIC3 specifically said not to put it inside a box or it will overheat. I have mine mounted to the pad behind the driver's seat.

-Ben M.

[Mueller]

I mounted my MS ECU in the rear trunk with the wiring going thru the hole for the targa top latches on the firewall section....

[Mark Henry]

I posted the group buy offer over on the STF, we now have 3 people interested in a system. That’s good for a 15% discount so far.

Jeff, if you were to decide to grab one, I have no problems with saying this was your deal. Hopefully you could get the dealers discount if you found a future market for the system. They have changed a few things with the price list, the custom wire harness (length) now costs extra and before they did list the ECU price separately, which would be good for you. You might want to ask to see if they will sell components.

I think in the trunk is the best place for the unit. I’m wondering about the crank fire ignition, is it worth it? It seems that some guys have problems (finger trouble) setting it up, the 914 guy was having install trouble because of our fan system and if you hit it with a pressure washer you can kill the coil packs.

Jon, if you are just replacing the stock D-jet ECU and wiring with a SDS injection only system it will take no time at all. If you are adding crank fire, changing TB’s etc., then of course your right. The thing I like about any PEFI system is that you can stick it on a stock TB system then up-grade if you like. I just found a Canadian hipo auto magazine, with an article about a ricer racing team that installed this system. Not much real info, but they did state that it took them 3hrs on the dyno to set-up the system.

[Mark Henry]

We now have 4 people interested, that's good for a 15% discount, but it's early yet.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[street legal go-kart]

almost a month later is anyone still watching this thread ? are any of these systems compatable with the smog nazis in calif ? I have a 76 2.o 4cyl . runs well now but parts are almost impossable to find .

[Mark Henry]

We have 8 people on the list. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

I moved it over to the STF site because there was more interest there. The buy happens at the end of the month if we have enough guys still in.

SDS says that this system is not as clean emissions wise as a factory FI system, that said, I don't think they are talking about a 30-year-old car. It has to be cleaner than carbs. I wish we could get some back to back tests, oh well.

You could cheat, set it up closed loop and play with the program for the test. You could always add a catalytic converter and hiding the aftermarket case in the factory case could be also done if they do a visual.

I think that you will see more and more guys switch to some brand of aftermarket FI like the SDS as the stock systems get older.

[Dave_Darling]

Technically the SDS or anything that is not stock is not smog legal. If you do a clean enough install (if it looks neat enough to be factory equipment), I doubt most "smog monkeys" are gonna notice. If you can set it up to run cleaner than D-jet (and I would be very surprised if you couldn't!) then there shouldn't be any problem.

If the installation is obviously aftermarket, then the smog inspectors may fail you.

--DD

[Mueller]

Mark,

The SDS guy was lying to you about the smog.....he is protecting himself from possible lawsuits if someone put this system on a car and got busted for a non-smog legal item and went and told the law or whoever that the seller claimed it would pass smog with flying colors.

I'm sure a motor running SDS can put out numbers better than the factory FI can, but SDS cannot tell you that. There are some things that as a seller you cannot claim.

So far SCCA has allowed PEFI in the ITA class so that will help, and once PCA allows PEFI in some of the lower classes, that will open up even more people that want to run, but cannot because of rules.

[Mark Henry]

I kind of figured that this was the old “Legal in California only for racing vehicles which may never be used upon a highway” clause.

Hide it and run it!!!

I can understand why stock racing classes don’t allow PEFI, it would be too easy and tempting to cheat. Tech inspection hell.

Anyways here is the STF thread, email me if you’re interested:

http://shoptalkforums.com/bbs/NonCGI/Forum...TML/000668.html

[Mark Henry]

RE: SDS group buy


OK, it’s not that long till the end of the month. Who’s in and who’s out?

Shoot me an email if you’re still in!

[Mark Henry]

OK, I’ve made the call on the STF for all the guys that are serious about a system. So far we have 6 guys for sure, good for a 20% discount. Almost everyone will be using these systems for turbo applications. The most expensive system will be in a Porsche 930 twin plug turbo.
The end of the month is coming quick.