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> Think I need suspension help, rear end keeps coming around
turboman808
post Jul 24 2006, 03:43 PM
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Last time I swear (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm ordering a set of falkens for the rear right now. Gonna get the alignment done in the morning. But I just had a quick tire question

I'm using 255/40 right now and Falken has that size. They also have a 275/40 with looks to be about .5 inch wider and bigger in diameter. It will fit for sure. The question is will that be safe or even work good on a 17x9 wheel. Here is a link to the information on the tires.

http://www.falkentire.com/rt615_sizes.html

It says a 17x9 is within spec but just thought I would make sure here first.
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Mueller
post Jul 24 2006, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE(turboman808 @ Jul 24 2006, 02:43 PM) *

Last time I swear (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm ordering a set of falkens for the rear right now. Gonna get the alignment done in the morning. But I just had a quick tire question

I'm using 255/40 right now and Falken has that size. They also have a 275/40 with looks to be about .5 inch wider and bigger in diameter. It will fit for sure. The question is will that be safe or even work good on a 17x9 wheel. Here is a link to the information on the tires.

http://www.falkentire.com/rt615_sizes.html

It says a 17x9 is within spec but just thought I would make sure here first.



brilliant... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

just ignore the manufactures recommended info and listen to some total strangers on the internet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

you will get more sidewall flex with the 275's, but sometimes that is not a bad thing...when my 255/40/17 Kuhmos need replacing (which is really soon), I'll be going with the 275's as well.........
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turboman808
post Jul 24 2006, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE(Mueller @ Jul 24 2006, 01:56 PM) *


just ignore the manufactures recommended info and listen to some total strangers on the internet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Well they can say it works. Doesn't mean it works well. Hopefully a few others have an opinion on this. I'll wait a few hours before ordering. Ain't no way they will be here before Friday anyways.
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Dominic L
post Jul 24 2006, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE(turboman808 @ Jul 24 2006, 11:41 AM) *

Thanks for the replys. I am more then a bit disapointed so far. But I will get it sorted out. I'm gonna stiffen the front sway a bit more, add more camber to the rear and ordered new rear tires but they won't be here until next week I am sure.

I'm also gonna take a driving course this friday and hopefully get some of it all sorted out. This time I will bring the tire temperature gauge with me and adjust pressure where needed


If i rememember correctly, you weren't spinning as bad the first time you autocrossed the car a few weeks ago. I'd switch back to the wheels and tires you had for the first AX for friday if you still have them. As fast as the car came out on you, I'd say it's a tire issue.
If you think it's the driver, I could always take it for a spin for you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Seriously though, see ya Fri and be awake! Long day ahead of you.
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turboman808
post Jul 24 2006, 04:50 PM
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Ya know your right I should switch tires for friday. Why the heck didn't I think of that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

The new wheels just look meaner though. I was hoping it would intimidate the cones (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Dominic L
post Jul 24 2006, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE(turboman808 @ Jul 24 2006, 02:50 PM) *

Ya know your right I should switch tires for friday. Why the heck didn't I think of that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

The new wheels just look meaner though. I was hoping it would intimidate the cones (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


BTW, your fastest time was pretty impressive for not having a handle on the car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif) Now get some tires and give those GT3 drivers a bellyache!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)
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turboman808
post Jul 24 2006, 06:08 PM
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Hey Dominic I found this page with photos from yesterday. This guy musta liked my car because he took alot of pictures of it. I think I got a stalker (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Photos are great. Wish I could take photos like that.

http://www.plaftaphoto.com/gallery/album343?page=1
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Trekkor
post Jul 24 2006, 06:54 PM
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Get the Falkens on all four corners and tear it up.

Set the pressures high, too.


KT
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Joe Ricard
post Jul 24 2006, 08:27 PM
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Yup agree with KT (once again)
adding new Azenis to the rear will now cause the front to push..

Go big or stay on the porch with the cats.
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J P Stein
post Jul 24 2006, 09:09 PM
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You got a lot to learn about AX & photags.
Ya gotta give em' some sideways stuff that looks semi under control.
Then they'll follow ya anywhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I didn't get away with this.....but it looks gud.


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DanT
post Jul 24 2006, 09:46 PM
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I am going to have to disagree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) at this juncture....

Until you know exactly what you have as far as suspension components and what you alignment specs and ride height you have....this is all speculation.

I also do not necessarily go along with the notion that your tires have to match to get good performance front to rear.

Just like my 914-4 calipers on the rear of a track car (wouldn't work), accomodations can be made with your set up to make it work quite nicely.

I have AXed a couple of Porsches of various types over the years which, for several reasons, had mismatched tires front to rear.....and things worked out just fine.
Not dangerous, not uncontrolable....just different from the norm. Being able to adapt your driving style to the conditions of the track and the car is a learned skill.

Find out exactly what you got and then come back for some more specific and helpful information.

I like that pic JP....

Kind of like this one



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brant
post Jul 24 2006, 09:51 PM
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Turboman808,

in order to get rear negative camber...
you really need to take it to someone that knows what they are doing.
unless you are familiar with strings and have experience, I highly recommend taking it to a pro.

you can't just adjust the number of shims/camber without changing other things ( IE: TOE)

talk about tail happy..
if you screw up your toe, you will really have a problem to keep it going straight... or else it will be slow.

it can be done at home, but if this is your first time on a teener and you are trying to chase a handling problem, I would recommend having a pro do the alignment and then at least one variable is eliminated.

brant
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DanT
post Jul 24 2006, 10:01 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with Brant.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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turboman808
post Jul 24 2006, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE(brant @ Jul 24 2006, 07:51 PM) *

in order to get rear negative camber...
you really need to take it to someone that knows what they are doing.
unless you are familiar with strings and have experience, I highly recommend taking it to a pro.


Yeah I am taking to a shop that came recommended in Hackensack in the morning. Don't think they have much experience with 914s though. I don't have alot to do at work so I will probably hang around and make sure everything is going right.

2 in front and back is the plan or somewhere close to that.
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Trekkor
post Jul 24 2006, 10:54 PM
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Apologies to Nate for this one:

Attached Image

Check this out!!

Attached Image

I've been there, too!!

Attached Image


I'll be running Hoosier a's on the front and r's on the rear at Marina.
I've got a pair of 710's I may toss into the mix...On 5.5" rims (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I'm really trying to save my new tires for the track.


KT
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turboman808
post Jul 25 2006, 04:21 AM
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Well I got up early and came to work so I could bring it inside and put it on level floor.

Now at some point this car was corner weighted but I think at this point it has gone out the window. I've taken about 30 lbs out of the front anyways so screw it!!!


Well one thing I found was the drivers side was an inch lower then the passenger side. This was without me being in the car. For now I just evened it out. I didn't disconnect the sway bar when I did this so I may have screwed it up even more.

I did stiffen the front sway bar a bit and it may have helped. I did do some controled drifting in an empty lot around 5am. I think it feels a bit more predictable but I could certainly be fooling myself. I also got the front about 1/4 inch lower then before.


When I take it to the alignment shop I will disconnect the sway bar and see if things still are even or not.

The back was dead on even side to side.

Off to the alignment shop in a few hours.




Really got to get this sorted out properly over winter. But for now I will have fun with her I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)




Oh and here is Dominic autoxing
(IMG:http://www.plaftaphoto.com/albums/album343/IMG_9608.jpg)


And here I am with smoke clouds as usual
(IMG:http://www.plaftaphoto.com/albums/album343/IMG_9616.jpg)
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Van914
post Jul 25 2006, 05:23 AM
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Brant's advise is right on! Check the alignment and rear toe. For a calmer car I suggest 1/8" toe in. My 914 was at 0" toe at first and it was tail happy with my driving style at the track. I have 22mm front bars and 180 lbs rear springs. A 19mm front sway bar and no rear bar. The front bar is set about halfway to the stiffest. A good shop can corner balance and get you the negitive camber you need. My car without any cutting or grinding has -1.9 in front and rear without any shims. Spend the money at a good shop.
van914
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brant
post Jul 25 2006, 08:53 AM
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everytime you change the ride height, you screw up the alignment.
I guess you knew this, but after the shop gets done with it... don't touch the ride height.

if you have changed the ride height since your purchase, this may account for the wacky handling.

also, depending upon rear suspension bearing/bushing material you can't get away with Zero Toe (except for braced bearings or monoballs)

the poly bushings still deflect under load and your zero toe then changes on you while cornering.

I run toe braces for just this reason
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turboman808
post Jul 25 2006, 09:31 AM
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I just got back from the shop.

I never touched the ride height since I bought it so it was like this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)


It was a weird experience. The guy did the aligment in record time. But after telling him what I wanted I came back and they only charged me for the front and it was only $65. Guy said the back didn't need to be done. I didn't say anything but I am thinking "WTF why didn't this jerkoff do the rear like I said?"

I just kinda left annoyed...

Well It turns out he did do the rear or I have been taking some happy mushrooms. The back was definetly done and I guess I should have hooked the guy up now HAHA
But yeah it all looks good now and I should be ready for friday autox school.
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Brett W
post Jul 25 2006, 06:04 PM
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What rear springs do you have? What bars are in the front?
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