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> Torn Rear Suspension Ear, drivers side inner console damage pictures
ChrisFoley
post Jul 24 2006, 07:42 PM
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The owner of this car was recently at Watkins Glen. Then he noticed something wrong with the handling and with the toe of the left rear tire at his last autocross. By the time the car was unloaded at my shop this is what he was driving with.


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root
post Jul 24 2006, 07:49 PM
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what kind of bushings are behind there?
new nylon lock washer and big ass washer, delrin? stock?
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ChrisFoley
post Jul 24 2006, 07:49 PM
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There is rust inside the console but rust isn't the cause of the failure. Only the front half of the crack is rusty on the edge, the rear is freshly torn near full thickness metal. I have seen the exact same thing several times now. A section of spot welds wasn't done with the correct power settings on the machinery in the Karmann plant. When the car is pushed to the limit of adhesion repeatedly on modern tires the overworked inner face of the console begins to crack and eventually cannot withstand the amount of force applied and fails completely. If the factory spotwelds were done properly this never would have happened. OTOH, if the car was never autocrossed and DE'ed on sticky tires this never would have happened either.


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ChrisFoley
post Jul 24 2006, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE(root @ Jul 24 2006, 09:49 PM) *

what kind of bushings are behind there?
new nylon lock washer and big ass washer, delrin? stock?

I think they are Elephant Racing bushings.
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grasshopper
post Jul 24 2006, 07:51 PM
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OMG! That is NASTY! I cant believe the spotwelds seperated right along the seam there.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) P.S. Did you get my PM??
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boxstr
post Jul 24 2006, 08:08 PM
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New Factory console NOS is $950.00 Some left in Germany.
CCLINTORNBETWEENTWOEARS
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grasshopper
post Jul 24 2006, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE(boxstr @ Jul 24 2006, 06:08 PM) *

New Factory console NOS is $950.00 Some left in Germany.
CCLINTORNBETWEENTWOEARS


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Holy Moly! P.S. did you get my PM craig?
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mightyohm
post Jul 24 2006, 08:28 PM
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Obviously this is due to the stainless steel brake lines.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)
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brer
post Jul 24 2006, 08:30 PM
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look familiar?
patch on my ear, extends up to the engine shelf and only to the seams. Very thick guage sheet metal.
no rust on the console as far as I've been able to tell after a good cleaning


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dakotaewing
post Jul 24 2006, 10:29 PM
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So what can be done on our cars to prevent this from happening?
I am currently putting a v8 car together and don't want to deal with this a few years after I start driving the car, especially since I can deal with it now....
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Krieger
post Jul 24 2006, 10:49 PM
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For strengthing ideas check patrick motorsports in their gallery. One of their cars, I think its silver or gray has a pice of sheet metal welded on the inner part of the dog ear with a hole for the nut.
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John
post Jul 24 2006, 10:50 PM
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QUOTE
So what can be done on our cars to prevent this from happening?


Reinforce the area (with thicker steel)

Brace the inner ear with a tube extending to the firewall GT style (again with a reinforcement plate)

Seam weld

I'm sure there are more methods, but these are a few options.


just my free advice
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brant
post Jul 24 2006, 11:00 PM
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I tore 2 of these (both right hand sides) in approximately 12 months time

I now am a firm believer in bracing.

Not trying to hijack Chris' thread.
he knows this and has his own expert system.

Here are pictures of my bracing on car #2:


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brant
post Jul 24 2006, 11:01 PM
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and from below:


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Trekkor
post Jul 24 2006, 11:27 PM
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This is on top of my list this winter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)


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Randal
post Jul 25 2006, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Jul 24 2006, 06:42 PM) *

The owner of this car was recently at Watkins Glen. Then he noticed something wrong with the handling and with the toe of the left rear tire at his last autocross. By the time the car was unloaded at my shop this is what he was driving with.


This is definately a job for SUPERCHRIS!
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drew365
post Jul 25 2006, 09:02 AM
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My car just had a removable brace installed similar to Brant's. I don't have a pic as it's still in the shop. I also have a bar going from the rear of the suspension ear to the tranny mount structural member, plus two more at the top of the shock tower rear to the tranny mount brace and forward to the roll cage. All the work was done by TRE. Here are a few pics that show some of the bracing but not the removable one like Brants


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kdfoust
post Jul 25 2006, 12:50 PM
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Hey Brandt:

I see you've got the bracing on the inner ear and a link on the outside ear as well. Do you consider the link from the outter mount point to the long as part of the suspension console strengthening or is that strictly to maintain a toe setting?

Regards,
Kevin
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brant
post Jul 25 2006, 12:59 PM
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its really just to lock in the toe setting.

but amazingly enough it flexes some also.
I had the bolt come loose on me once last season
car actually felt a little off.
we came in and started to go over it to see why.
found all 3 of the swingarm adjusment bolts still tight.
but then found the toe adjustment mounting point bolt (front one) loose.

was surprised it made a difference.
I think there is a tiny bit of extra flex that is taken out.

if you want to read about flex...
check out Chris' swing arm flex thread..
wow... amazing stuff

(thanks again for doing all of that unpaid research Chris!)

brant
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maf914
post Jul 25 2006, 02:07 PM
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Brant,

I always enjoy seeing photos of you car. You and your Dad did a great job. That is the kind of work that I wished I could do. But, I have a question about your suspension console bracing. In the photo above looving down into the engine bay the attachment point at the suspension console appears to be a flat strap with ears attached for the brace to the firewall. I have wondered why this strap was used and not boxed in to the console. As seen in the photo it looks as if it could flex, especially when the brace is in compression. Just wondering. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
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