Wiring Harness, How much does it weigh? How much could it weigh? |
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Wiring Harness, How much does it weigh? How much could it weigh? |
nebreitling |
Jul 31 2006, 07:27 PM
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#1
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
Sooo, i figure i need spark, starter stuff, brake lights, a fuel pump, and a few gauges. how much does a stock wiring harness weigh -- how much could it weigh?
n |
Borderline |
Jul 31 2006, 08:49 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 8-February 05 From: San Juan Bautista, CA Member No.: 3,577 Region Association: Northern California |
I have a complete wire harness out in the shed. I'll try to weigh it tomorrow. Its not heavy. I would guess about 3 or 4 lbs. I don't think it would be worth the effort to remove it. But then if you rewired the car for only the things you need, it could be more reliable as well?
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grantsfo |
Jul 31 2006, 09:12 PM
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#3
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
I dont think you would get too much from cutting down the wire harness. When are you going to start cutting out unnecessary sheet metal? Do you have fiberglass hoods yet?
I have to talk to you about how you gutted your 75 model doors - I'm ready to go to phase 2 in turning the car into a more dedicated race car. I started to look at the doors and they are crazy heavy. I had my grinder all ready to go but figured I would talk to you first. |
Brad Roberts |
Jul 31 2006, 09:31 PM
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#4
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Andy and I weighed his and a 9146 harness... but I dont recall the number..LOL
We did pull 22lbs out of a 993. This included all the little "brains" that run the car. We left a couple of extra circuits for growth. I think the late dooe braces when cut out are something like 15lbs. Cut and weighed one of those also. B |
nebreitling |
Jul 31 2006, 09:52 PM
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#5
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
yeah, there's a lot left to the car that can go... i need glass lids, no doubt. i'm just dreading paint work... $$ maybe white gelcoat wouldn't look that bad...?
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SirAndy |
Aug 1 2006, 11:43 AM
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#6
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,612 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Andy and I weighed his and a 9146 harness... but I dont recall the number..LOL the main harness isn't all that much, 4 or maybe 5 pounds total ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy |
nebreitling |
Aug 1 2006, 12:40 PM
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#7
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
thx guys. n
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McMark |
Aug 1 2006, 01:52 PM
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#8
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
I have before and after numbers at the shop from cutting down Randal's harness. I think it's heavier than you guys are quoting. 12 lbs stock comes to mind.
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SirAndy |
Aug 1 2006, 02:31 PM
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#9
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,612 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
I have before and after numbers at the shop from cutting down Randal's harness. I think it's heavier than you guys are quoting. 12 lbs stock comes to mind. what year is his car? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) there's really not much to an early harness, if you exclude things like the FI computer etc. ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy |
lapuwali |
Aug 1 2006, 02:54 PM
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#10
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Not another one! Group: Benefactors Posts: 4,526 Joined: 1-March 04 From: San Mateo, CA Member No.: 1,743 |
There's a lot of wiring in the front trunk that doesn't need to be there in a race only car. Pulling all that wire and all of the corresponding electrical bits will save a fair amount of weight, including things like headlight motors, wiper motor, blower motor, headlights, etc. There would be one 20g wire for the fuel level gauge, and even that's optional.
The fusebox area can be reduced to almost nothing, and there's a LOT of wire there. For a car with no lights, the center tunnel wires can all be reduced to 18g or less. I'd run four 18g wires (+12, switched +12, starter, brake lights), and the rest would all be 22g (alt light, oil pressure, oil temp, tach). There'd be one fuse (7-10A) for the gauges off the ignition switch and the alt light. I'd run one more fuse+relay for the fuel pump off switched +12. I'd get rid of the relay board, and keep only the regulator, running the alt light wire directly off the back of the alternator. Wild guess, if you pulled off EVERYTHING electrical that's not required for the car to run, you'd save about 25-30lbs. Use a PC680 battery, and that's another 20lbs. |
brant |
Aug 1 2006, 03:05 PM
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#11
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,618 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I'd side with James on this one.
I'd say its 20+ lbs savings on our car. (started as a 1972) we pulled every single wire out and remade an entire harness just for our essentials. there are charts out there that tell you what guage you need for different draw at different lengths. We used the charts to accurately get the right guage. We replaced everything including all grounds and battery cables. We used Spruce supply to buy all of the wire. Its aircraft wire which is specially rated with thinner insulation (for flight) we made up our new fuse board and only the guages and lights we actually needed. for example. the brake lights are the only remaining lights in the entire car. They are powered by a single wire which runs from one light to the next. And the grounds for those brake lights runs to the chassis and not through a loom (6inches of ground max) its a ton of work. but I'd guess a net of at least 20lbs without taking into account the battery. much of my wiring is pictured in my vintage thread. brant |
Brad Roberts |
Aug 1 2006, 03:22 PM
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#12
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
I plan on running a shift light and one tailight in my next car along with ignition and fuel pump (maybe a starter button)
No need for gauges. I cant do a damn thing about it when the oil light comes on.. it has ALWAYS been too late.. so no need for oil pressure/oil temp/or tach. By now I know what the oil temp is going to run depending on cooler size and line size. It will be a 4cyl car. 69x96 RPM 1997cc screamer. Case/crank and rods are all out being done right now. Nickies are ordered. Shooting for 1600lbs. B |
brant |
Aug 1 2006, 03:41 PM
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#13
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,618 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
I think 1600lbs are very achievable.
I would recommend a volt meter though we added it as and after thought upon recommendation of AJ its very helpful as a diagnostic and tells you things (like your regulator accidently came unplugged). This happened to us once and we were able to solve the problem between runs and avoid a dead battery mid race. Also, for a -6 (not your car brad) I really believe in the alternator light. We used a shift light with huge bright output to be our warning light for the alternator. That is one thing you could shut down in time to save a motor. I am fully convinced that 1700lbs is achievable with an all metal car (no fiberglass lids) I would very much like to build another -4 vintage car at that weight and our metal -6 came in at 1850 wet, so I'm convinced that I could save 150 in the 2nd oil cooler, aluminum block, and oil tank.. heck we have 19qts of oil now, so I'm certain that a 1700lb metal car could be done. Meaning that a 1600lb glass car would not be much more work at that point. brake wires: brant Attached thumbnail(s) |
brant |
Aug 1 2006, 03:42 PM
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#14
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,618 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
oh brad...
you should consider the secret alternator trick that AJ is using on all of his racers now. brant |
drew365 |
Aug 1 2006, 06:17 PM
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#15
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These are the good old days! Group: Members Posts: 2,004 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Sunny So. Cal. Member No.: 37 |
Anyone know how much is saved by eliminating the headlights, motors and doors and replacing with a fiberglass cover?
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brant |
Aug 1 2006, 09:02 PM
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#16
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,618 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
fiberglass...
whats that? I recommend aluminum brant |
Series9 |
Aug 1 2006, 09:19 PM
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#17
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
Personally, I have found that 300hp helps me forget about the 2lbs of material I have in the RS for keeping track of the oil vitals.
Try loosing some weight yourself (not aimed at anyone). It's easier. |
Series9 |
Aug 1 2006, 09:25 PM
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#18
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
Here you go. The scale registers in .5lb increments.
Since it still says zero, I've decided that this is a piece of diagnostic equipment I'm not going to loose in the name of weight savings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Attached image(s) |
brant |
Aug 1 2006, 09:27 PM
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#19
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,618 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Joe,
I could certainly afford to loose some weight myself.. but its kinda hard to get 300hp out of a 2.0 when the rules require an honest 1991cc and you decide not to cheat. plus when the rules require only metal body panels, then a pound here and a pound there start to look appealing since your not allowed to buy CF. auntie brant |
Series9 |
Aug 1 2006, 09:39 PM
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#20
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Lesbians taste like chicken. Group: Members Posts: 5,444 Joined: 22-August 04 From: DeLand, FL Member No.: 2,602 Region Association: South East States |
Nevertheless, I will never sacrifice the 1.5 pounds of oil trend-monitoring device on the dash.
It can tell you something is wrong long before an engine is consumed by the problem. |
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