PorSTi Project Thread…, Well that was fun, time to make some upgrades! Options

[Amenson]

As the title states my project has turned a critical corner. After may months of planning and measuring and prognosticating how great it will be, I put down the sand blaster and stripping pad and got down to real work.

I purchased my 914 with the plan of dong this swap. The motor is from my ex-daily driver that I managed to shorten a bit. The 914 that I am starting with has been restored once before and had a decent autocross suspension. The first thing I did to it was to upgrade the front calipers to 3-series BMW. It is not perfect but is pretty clean and straight. The only part that had not been repainted was found behind the heat/sound pad in the engine compartment. The plan is to repair some shoddy patch work in the battery tray area and repaint the engine compartment once all of the fab work is complete for the swap.

Project details:

Engine:

’05 Subaru STi

Trans:

Stock…for now

Adapter Plate/Clutch:

Kennedy Engineering adapter plate and Stage 3 clutch.

Engine Mount:

Modified Small Car Performance mounts bolted to the stock engine bar. The solid body mounts at the ends of the bar have been replaced with stiff 911 mounts. The engine bar has been modified to accommodate the mounts without changing the position of the bar.

Oil Pan:

I will probably take the easy way out and have Small Car Performance shorten and box out the stock pan.

Exhaust:

Custom exhaust will be made starting with Outback stub headers. 2” tubing will be run to the turbo from each header. Exhaust from the turbo will be 3” SS to a straight through MagnaFlow muffler. The exhaust will exit in the stock location (maybe people will not notice anything unusual about the car when they pull up next to it).

Electrical:

The entire electrical system will be taken from the STi harness with unnecessary parts removed. This may seem like a lot of effort but it will provide a much needed update to the old stock harness and allow me to still develop my digital display product. It will also make it straight forward to use the throttle by wire.

Cooling:

Ron Davis 28” x 16” x 3” double pass radiator mounted in the front vented through the hood like wbergtho’s. The current plan is to run the cooling lines through the center tunnel.

Steering:

The stock steering column will be replaced by a shortened STi column. This will allow use easy use of the of the stalk switches and more importantly, the RF ID security key system. Initial measurements show that this will be fairly straight forward to do and will also give the benefit of adjustable steering wheel height.

Seating:

Momo Start. These seats were chosen because of the FIA certified seats they have the thinnest seat cushion and are bottom mounted to allow for the lowest possible seating position (they are also quite economical). I tried a set of Corbeau seats that I had from another project and I hardly fit in the car at all much less with a helmet on.

Belts:

For the road I am going to run Schroth Rallye Cross 4-points. They are DOT approved and have a quick latch mechanism. I will install 6 points for track use.

Intercooler:

A 25” x 12” x 3” Ebay bar and plate front mount intercooler will be mounted to the top of the engine. While this is not ideal, the intercooler will get quite a bit of fresh air from in front of the engine. The engine lid will be modified to a GT style so that as much air can flow through the area as possible. 3” Al tubing will be run from the turbo to the intercooler and on to the throttle body.

Oiling:

A remote filter/cooler is necessary because the stock oil/water cooler does not quite fit with the engine mount in place.

Unresolved Items:

Turbo placement.

It is awfully tight under there even with some of the sheet metal removed. We will find out on Saturday, that is when the exhaust will come together.

Cooling lines:

The plan is to run them through the tunnel in thin walled Al or SS tubing. With the heater control and throttle cable tubes removed, two 1” od test tubes fit to the front of the tunnel. I would like to use slightly larger tubes and still need to fit the fuel and brake lines. The tightest spot is right at the shifter. I am considering widening the tunnel at this point.

Throttle Pedal:

I am not sure how to mount the STi electronic throttle. In the Suby it is top pivoting. This may be uncomfortable with the floor pivot brake and clutch pedals. I have also considered linking the throttle sensor to the stock 914 pedal. This will have to wait until I have seats in the car again.

Starter:

Not really a problem…just have not picked one out yet.

Wipers:

I have not yet checked if the STi wiper control system will run the 914 wiper motor.

As much as possible items will be mounted to the engine in a way that will allow for minimal disassembly when removing the engine/trans. The current exhaust/turbo plumbing plan should all come out with the engine with the exception of the supply to the turbo.

Timing….the goal is to have it ready for the track day at Mid Ohio on Oct. 6th. This is a bit aggressive, especially considering that I will be vacationing in London for 8 days at the end of the month. I have been making great progress the past month and I have most of the critical parts already. Just need to keep plugging along and hope that my friends keep helping. Without them this project would not be possible.

Now for the important stuff…the pictures.

This is the engine that I started with, it came out of my daily driver STi that came to an untimely death:


When the timing belt broke 2 valves were bent so a teardown was necessary:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.digitaldash.org-4154-1328899178.1.jpg)

Due to the obscene cost of the Subaru tools to remove the valves I, made my own:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.digitaldash.org-4154-1328899179.2.jpg)

Put the engine back together and attached it to the trans:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.digitaldash.org-4154-1328899179.3.jpg)

Slipped it into place and attached the trans mounts:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.digitaldash.org-4154-1328899179.4.jpg)

Here is a picture of the unmodified Small Car Performance engine brackets mounted to the bottom of the engine. They wrapped nicely around the oil pan. There was a slight interference between the water line from the oil/water cooler that required a notch.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.digitaldash.org-4154-1328899179.5.jpg)

[Crazyhippy]

Scott

Is this engine a "drive by wire" throttle body? Wondering why you swapped out the steering wheel? I'm building an '02 stock body also. Thinking of going twin turbo and moving the turbos back to the rear end similar to a 935.

Ed aka W9R1
'73 914 w/2003 WRX EJ20
'06 Subaru Forester 2.5 XT

MUCH better off sticking w/ common Scooby stuff. You know it will work, what turbo works w/ what motor etc.

I'm waiting for my 8CM TD06-20G to show up along w/ a new intercooler. Should be over 350HP at the wheels, going to try for 400 on C-16 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

BJH

[Amenson]

Scott

Is this engine a "drive by wire" throttle body? Wondering why you swapped out the steering wheel? I'm building an '02 stock body also. Thinking of going twin turbo and moving the turbos back to the rear end similar to a 935.

Ed aka W9R1
'73 914 w/2003 WRX EJ20
'06 Subaru Forester 2.5 XT

Ya, it is throttle by wire. Also, it has a security key so without the ignition cylinder and key the ecu will refuse to do much of anything.

Thanks for the GT lid link...that will help. Now I need to add another engine lid to my shopping list.

Scott

[fat73]

Scott

Is this engine a "drive by wire" throttle body? Wondering why you swapped out the steering wheel? I'm building an '02 stock body also. Thinking of going twin turbo and moving the turbos back to the rear end similar to a 935.

Ed aka W9R1
'73 914 w/2003 WRX EJ20
'06 Subaru Forester 2.5 XT

MUCH better off sticking w/ common Scooby stuff. You know it will work, what turbo works w/ what motor etc.

I'm waiting for my 8CM TD06-20G to show up along w/ a new intercooler. Should be over 350HP at the wheels, going to try for 400 on C-16 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

BJH

Precisely...but what about using one of the (much less expensive) twin turbo'd engines and just moving the turbos down and back to the rear (to avoid having to cut the trunk area), with stock ECU stuff?

By the way....that setup of yours should be crazy stupid fast. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Oy yeah...I'm going to the dupont registry magazine meet here in Clearwater this Saturday at 7am to what they call the Cars and Coffee meet.

They have some insane cars show up there from what I've seen on http://www.myspace.com/carsandcoffee

At least one of the other local 914ers is going too. I'll post pics.

Ed aka W9R1

[Amenson]

Had a few buddies over to help yesterday and we made some really good progress. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)...ok, and had a few beers also.

Made the Radiator support and welded in the fuel cell frame:



Installed:



Made the outlet of the exhaust and the rear intercooler support:



Going to try to get the fuel lines run and the rear brakes/prop valve plumbed today.

One month until Woodward Dream cruise...need to get this thing running so I can go up to Pontiac and show the hot rod guys how to make some smoke!

Scott

[Amenson]

Progress from Sunday:

Installed new brake lines in the rear:



Finally buttoned up the timing belt:



I think that the single most difficult part of the entire project was dealing with the damn cam pullies. Getting them off in the first place, especially the broken ones, and getting them torqued back down w/o the Subaru special tools has been a real pain in the butt. I ended up pushing the engine 2 blocks down to the Subaru dealership to use their tools. I can probably install the timing belt while sleeping now.

While checking the cam timing I rotated the engine and found that the starter is partially engagued. I have one of the recommended eBay high torque gear reduction starters. I am going to install my old starter to see if I have partial engagement with that one also.

Is a shim required to use this starter normally. Could my flywheel be the problem? I have a Renegade flywheel/adapter plate made for the engine/trans combination.

Scott

[Chris Pincetich]

Nice progress! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
My mini-starter fit fine, but others have the same problem. One actually thrashed the flywheel due to the limited engagement. Use the *search* on the upper right link and try searching for "starter" in titles...there was a good discussion recently where mcMark talked about shimming the mount to match the starter gear on the flywheel teeth better - again, in some cases this problem exists but not all. Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[RS22b]

i must say, this has got to be one of the most complete STi conversions i have seen. Would love to do the same kinda thing someday. Not sure if it will come sooner than later, but would love for it to come sooner than later (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Are you on nasioc as well?

As you can see by my sig im a subaru junkie as well, but the 914 was first.

cant wait to see the final product!
g/l

_billy

PS: dont throw any of that subaru stuff away! before you do, let me know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Amenson]

...there was a good discussion recently where mcMark talked about shimming the mount to match the starter gear on the flywheel teeth better - again, in some cases this problem exists but not all. Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Thanks for the tip. I am a little less irritated by the situation now. Guess that I have to add one more thing to the "to make" list.

RS22b, I am on nasioc but I rarely read it and pretty much never post. I have sold almost all of the STi stuff already. All that is left are the struts, rocker covers, front subframe and a few other small odds and ends. Oh, center console and carpet also...but only because I had a non-paying idiot win those items on eBay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

Scott

[Amenson]

Made a little more progress today. The intercooler no longer needs a board and roll of tape to hold it up. I flattened the ends and bent up some 3/8" SS fuel line. I think that it worked out well although do need to adjust the back of the intercooler up a bit as I can no longer remove the coolant cap.





The fuel lines are next on the list.

Scott

[Amenson]

Got a bit more work done the last couple of days.

Made the through tunnel fuel lines. Also had the exhaust welded and installed the O2 bungs, as always it turned out great...this project would not be going so well without the help of my buddies:



Mocked up the turbo to intercooler piping...need to tack it into place and have it welded:





It looks like I am going to need to remove the engine lid latch to clear the IC tubing on the other side. I was really hoping to avoid doing this.

Somebody buy my 2.0L...(IMG:style_emoticons/default/051103-stupid4.gif)I mean 1.7/1.8L SSI's, the project fund is running low!

Scott

[charliew]

Hi Scott, I'm pretty new to this forum but I'm lovin it. It's like a gold mine to me. Is the turbo going to drain oil back ok? I'm trying to use a twin turbo and am interested in the positioning of yours. Also are you aware that a light crank pulley creates harmonics that disturb the oil pump? I'm not positive on this but it's something I read on nasioc. You can take this with a grain of salt. I put my original pulley back on though. I will have plenty of power without the risk. Also we have found a better oil pump lately thats discussed on nasioc. Don't worry if your not going to be bouncing of the rev. limiter. Hope the tranny holds up. I really enjoy your thread.
Charlie

[Amenson]

Hi Scott, I'm pretty new to this forum but I'm lovin it. It's like a gold mine to me. Is the turbo going to drain oil back ok? I'm trying to use a twin turbo and am interested in the positioning of yours. Also are you aware that a light crank pulley creates harmonics that disturb the oil pump? I'm not positive on this but it's something I read on nasioc. You can take this with a grain of salt. I put my original pulley back on though. I will have plenty of power without the risk. Also we have found a better oil pump lately thats discussed on nasioc. Don't worry if your not going to be bouncing of the rev. limiter. Hope the tranny holds up. I really enjoy your thread.
Charlie

Charlie,
Thank you for the tip on the pulley, I will look into it. I still have my original but it was scuffed in the accident so I replace it. I don't think that I will get to use the full rev's all that much anyways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

As for the turbo oil drain, I am going to try to use the stock block return modified a bit to point in the correct direction. I also have a fitting for the oil pan if that does not look like it will work.

I hope the tranny hold up also!

Scott

[Amenson]

Have not posted in a while because I have not made any interesting progress. I have been plugging way on a load of small projects:

Made the spacer for the starter
Made the flange for the blow off valve
Started removing the engine lit latch
Test fit the clutch cable
Modified the clutch pulley housing to lower the clutch cable under the exhaust
Started running the cooling lines. This was a bit of a set back. I purchased gates 75w marine type colling line. The specified bend radius was 12 inches. I figure that I could cheat it a little...I was wrong. It creases quite easily. Now I am going to have to put a few stainless steel bends where I need to make a tight direction change. I know, more places to leak but I do not have much of an option right now.

On the brighter side, I proved once again that good things do come from eBay!!! I got an '83 CS front suspension for $285 + shipping which was only $55 because the seller let me arrange shipping through my BAX account.





You can see one of the 4-pot billet calipers that I plan to use both front and rear in the above picture. As this is not a critical part of the project at this point I promptly disassembled the parts so that they would fit into bins and stored them away until winter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

So needless to say, with Woodward Dream Cruise coming up this weekend I will not be participating with the PorSTi. I will be having a party for it Saturday night. If anybody is planning to be in the area and wants to stop by for a beer and check out the project I am a block east of Woodward in Ferndale...just send me a PM and I will give you the details.

Scott

[Brando]

Quick question...

Since this is a water-pumper, how will you be moving air through the engine bay (and the intercooler) when sitting at idle or at low speeds? Running big high-flow fans?

[pffft]

Quick question...

Since this is a water-pumper, how will you be moving air through the engine bay (and the intercooler) when sitting at idle or at low speeds? Running big high-flow fans?

Why would you need to? It won't be making any boost at idle and very little at low revs.
My sube intercooler draws air through a scoop, and I never thought about it needing
fan circulated air. Not saying it doesn't, but I always figured the intercooler was for cooling
the compressed air from the turbo, not the coolant.


patrick

[Brando]

Even at low revs and idle you'll be pumping 'exhaust-heated' air through that intercooler. I thought the premise was to cool that air? Without airflow (or in a water to air intercooler, coolant flow) it's perpetuating higher intake temps. Not to mention, you'll be keeping warm/hot air in the engine bay.

Sure, you might not 'need' it, but I'm just taking a practical standpoint on the issue. If I were running a boosted car, I'd be doing what I could to keep that intake charge as cool as possible.

[fat73]

Even at low revs and idle you'll be pumping 'exhaust-heated' air through that intercooler. I thought the premise was to cool that air? Without airflow (or in a water to air intercooler, coolant flow) it's perpetuating higher intake temps. Not to mention, you'll be keeping warm/hot air in the engine bay.

Sure, you might not 'need' it, but I'm just taking a practical standpoint on the issue. If I were running a boosted car, I'd be doing what I could to keep that intake charge as cool as possible.

Speaking from 17,000 miles of experience with zero-zilch problems with the engine, here's my $.02. My intercooler is stock and is top mounted horizontally (Renegade setup) just to the right of the engine bay. I don't know anybody with this setup that has intake air cooling problems; although I'm sure more air flow across the intercooler would be better for performance. As is you can get 4.5 secs 0-60, and ~10 seconds 0-100. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) I did remove the engine lid drain pan on my car for clearance of the intercooler. In my opinion the engine bay doesn't get any hotter, if as hot, as the original air cooled engine.

Ed aka W9R1
1973 914/2003 EJ20 WRX engine
1972 914 Roller in process
community.webshots.com/user/fat73
youtube.com search for Porsche W9R1

[Amenson]

Even at low revs and idle you'll be pumping 'exhaust-heated' air through that intercooler. I thought the premise was to cool that air? Without airflow (or in a water to air intercooler, coolant flow) it's perpetuating higher intake temps. Not to mention, you'll be keeping warm/hot air in the engine bay.

Sure, you might not 'need' it, but I'm just taking a practical standpoint on the issue. If I were running a boosted car, I'd be doing what I could to keep that intake charge as cool as possible.

From a practical standpoint I am significantly better than stock. On the STi (and all other Subies) the intercooler is mounted almost directly above above the turbo. At least now I have the relatively cool air coming off the engine going through the intercooler while stationary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I intend to monitor intake air temps to see how the system works.

Scott

[charliew]

Hey guys, my son has a sti and we put a front mount ic on it about a year ago. He ordered a water injection kit to add to it. After installing the ic I told him I had some thermocouple wire and a hand held temp guage for the wire and we ran a little check. We ran a wire under the silicon hose at the tb and another under the hose at the outlet of the turbo. It was about 99 degrees by a thermometer on the wall in the shade. In 2nd gear the turbo hit 340 degrees f. and 3rd about 350. We then used the wire to the tb and in second and 3rd we only saw 106 degrees. This was air coming off of asphalt on a 100 degree day. We decided we needed to check the guage so we boiled some water and the water boiled at about 217 degrees if I remember correctly. We are at about 770 ft elevation. My son is a mech. engineer so he is pretty thorough on his evaluations. Needless to say he has not gotten around to adding the water injection and he's now running about 22 lbs. boost. (with a different turbo) When we did the check he was still using the stock sti turbo and I think about only 18 lbs. of boost and I'm not sure if it held that much all the way to redline. On the 914 if you run headers with out wrap the nasioc boys claim you loose boost temperature and turbo performance when you no longer have the cast iron manifolds and insulated pipes.This would also lower the air temps at the turbo and increase lag time. Don't forget the turbo is also water cooled. The subie can be made to run at 180 degrees, I believe, and this also lowers the engine bay temps. Of course there is going to be heat soak when going slow or stopped. Don't plan on real power till you've gone a little ways. One hot evening when my son was first tuning( he was adding springs to the waste gate) he would run through 4th and come back and set with the air cond. on and study the data on his lap top. After several runs he said it wasn't running as good as it ran that morning going to work. I reminded him that we were inducing heat soak considerably enjoying the air. This was about 10pm at night but it was still hot. I am going to eliminate the water lines to the tb and iac valve on my subies. If it gets very cold here I should be hunting. One thing we don't have is the fans blowing air from a radiator over the motor as in a stock application. I still haven't decided for sure which way the air is moving through the engine compartment at speed on the 914. I think it's down but I'm not positive. My 75 has little rubber flaps on the belly in front of the engine bay. This would appear to enhance the downward air movement I would think. Probably a belly pan from the front of the tranny back to the rear valance would also help. I believe at 17 lbs. boost with 93 octane the ic in the engine bay is good enough till it gets above 120 degrees outside and if it's over 100 I'll be in the pool or on the web.

Charlie

[Crazyhippy]

I've done similar thermocouple tests...

The hill next to my house (freeway, canejo grade) 4th gear @ 7000RPM had the turbo outlet @ 360* (stock turbo). The throttle body temp would slowly creep up and stabilize just under 200*. Now have a MUCH bigger turbo, and need to up size the intercooler to match.

Damn this HP adiction is never ending.

BJH