I guess you need rubber on the tires to turn the car..., AX ice skating Options

[nine14cats]

Randal and I were co-piloting Fritz at the GGR AX yesterday and after the first run we were fighting the car big time. Fritz would just not turn or stop. As soon as you turned the car.....you'd keep going straight. As soon as you applied brakes hard....you'd keep going straight.

We've had tires on backorder for 2 weeks...seems everyone in the country is out of the tire sizes we use. The front tires in particular were shredded....I counted NINE corded patches on the two tires alone....the rears look a little better, but they are shot too....

We ended up loosening the car until it was practically driving backwards and we stayed off the powere and drove the tail tragger like a momentum car (4 cyl 914). It appears even with corded tires we took a 2nd or 3rd overall.....not bad for driving without rubber! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Take a look at the two front tires.....

Bill P.

[DanT]

That is what happens when you try to turn and brake at the same time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) No ABS on that there car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I was glad to see both of you get out of the 60+ in the afternoon.

It would be interesting to see that car on big DOT Rs....like the tires that were on it when you bought it.

It will be interesting to see what the final standings are....

Where Weinstein and Pack ended up.
I think Terry was working on a mid 58 also.
Ken Jones ran a mid 58 in his Boxster.

I am still quite pleased with my low 59 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

I don't think tired 2.0Ls are supposed to run that fast....must be the color (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

No, I know what it is....the car is too low, No, the brakes will never work, no the oil cooler won't work there..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Randal]

That is what happens when you try to turn and brake at the same time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) No ABS on that there car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I was glad to see both of you get out of the 60+ in the afternoon.

It would be interesting to see that car on big DOT Rs....like the tires that were on it when you bought it.

It will be interesting to see what the final standings are....

Where Weinstein and Pack ended up.
I think Terry was working on a mid 58 also.
Ken Jones ran a mid 58 in his Boxster.

I am still quite pleased with my low 59 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

I don't think tired 2.0Ls are supposed to run that fast....must be the color (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

No, I know what it is....the car is too low, No, the brakes will never work, no the oil cooler won't work there..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I got a 58 the hard way... Drove a 56 (and change) with two cones.

But we did learn something, i.e., you have to drive what you have and both Bill and I did adjust.

[Trekkor]

I feel pretty comfortable saying I'd have a clean 57.xxx if I started on my stickies in the morning.

My first four runs were on old throw offs. (Should have been thrown away)

I'm looking foward to seeing the final results, too.


KT

[nebreitling]

No, I know what it is....the car is too low, No, the brakes will never work, no the oil cooler won't work there..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

frankly dan, when people made those comments about you car, they were in a totally constructive spirit. I don't think anyone really particularly cares how you set-up your car -- everyone realizes that there are many paths to success. you're obviously a very experienced, very fast driver -- there's no reason to paint yourself as an indignant underdog.

now get that motor built so you can beat trekkor and grant! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

[J P Stein]

I've been down that road recently......but with plenty of rubber, just no grip.
I cured that, but gave myself another problem.....so I'll fix that.....but then I'll have no excuses. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Hay Bill, how's your scrub radius?

[DanT]

No, I know what it is....the car is too low, No, the brakes will never work, no the oil cooler won't work there..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

frankly dan, when people made those comments about you car, they were in a totally constructive spirit. I don't think anyone really particularly cares how you set-up your car -- everyone realizes that there are many paths to success. you're obviously a very experienced, very fast driver -- there's no reason to paint yourself as an indignant underdog.

now get that motor built so you can beat trekkor and grant! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

Not indignant Nathan, just a little tongue in cheek humor, back at all the naysayers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As you said, lots of ways to do the job...not everyone agrees on which is best.

[Trekkor]

Bill, I would love to see how your car would perform on fat 710's.
You ever thought of that as an option?

KT

[grantsfo]

Fritz with lack of grip is relative. That car on slippery tires was still holding corners and braking awfully fast compared to other cars out there. Early in the day I think everyone was suffering. Even Andrew was sliding around. I managed to spin my car real hard 5 out of 8 runs, but then my driving just plain sucked.

[DanT]

Fritz with lack of grip is relative. That car on slippery tires was still holding corners and braking awfully fast compared to other cars out there. Early in the day I think everyone was suffering. Even Andrew was sliding around.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[nine14cats]

I've been down that road recently......but with plenty of rubber, just no grip.
I cured that, but gave myself another problem.....so I'll fix that.....but then I'll have no excuses. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Hay Bill, how's your scrub radius?

Hi JP,

I haven't calculated the measurements on the scrub radius but looking at the suspension components centerline axis it's definitely positive. There are 22mm spacers on the fronts but the 16x10 rims in the front have 5.75" of backspacing. This probably exacerbates the wandering feeling on the track during high speed braking.

This winter, Fritz will most likely get new shocks and springs all around. I plan on mounting adjustable shocks with stiffer springs. I will also replace the home made steering knuckles as well. At that time I'll have the SAI measured and we'll see where we are at.

Of course, there are all kinds of goodies that help counteract all the negatives of widening the track and having excessive positive scrub radius, but I don't know if my wife will go for a home re-fi to pay for it..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Bill P.

[nine14cats]

Bill, I would love to see how your car would perform on fat 710's.
You ever thought of that as an option?

KT

Hi Trekkor,

710's are not an option for the car right now. In the future maybe, but not right now. If I run with PRC, the GTL class mandates Goodyear slicks. It's not the tires as much as the camber settings. To get the most out of the car we have been playing with camber settings based on track testing. I keep track of tire temps across the tires and wear. Right now we are getting even temps across the tires and even wear. This is achieved with -1.0 degrees up front and -0.6 degrees out back.

The V710's require substantial negative camber to be taken advantage of. I would have to have the car's camber settings changed in order to try it out. Since the car is first and foremost a track car, and all of my sorting out has the PRC GTL class in mind, I can't justify the expense of multiple suspension alignments.

Besides, Fritz has one, maybe two AX's left before retirement. Due to a business trip, I won't be at GGR AX#8, but Randal may be there alone. I guess it will depend on if we get tires by then. But we both will be driving the car for the send off at AX#9.

Thanks,

Bill P.

[Trekkor]

That's right, I forgot we talked about that.


KT

[DanT]

Next year Bill is planning on competing in GGRs new S2000 class against Joe Hoppa (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[nine14cats]

Next year Bill is planning on competing in GGRs new S2000 class against Joe Hoppa (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Isn't it in the GGR by-laws that a group of drivers can initiate their own class? Does it have to be a P car?....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) S2000 FUN class.....

V710's here I come....

Bill P.

[grantsfo]

Next year Bill is planning on competing in GGRs new S2000 class against Joe Hoppa (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Isn't it in the GGR by-laws that a group of drivers can initiate their own class? Does it have to be a P car?....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) S2000 FUN class.....

V710's here I come....

Bill P.

If that's the case I think we should have a kart class. ....Was talking to Nathan and he was wondering if he could drive his soon to be shifter kart. He's still technically a PCA member right?

Speaking of V710's I have 265/45/16 rears and 225/50/16 fronts going on my car tomorrow. Funny thing is I'll likely burn through them this weekend at Laguna!

[DanT]

Yes, you can make up your own classes for competition purposes. Also it take 3 or more competitors to form a special class.
the spirit of the rule was for Porsches.
We have never allowed open wheeled vehicles at our events.

Also, up until about 5-6 years ago....it was Porsches only.Currently PCA members can drive a non P car at events in fun class. Which do not acrew points for year end awards.
That was done years ago when our AX events were having trouble getting enough participants and at least breaking even financially.

It might be time to revisit that rule.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Trekkor]

Speaking of V710's I have 265/45/16 rears and 225/50/16 fronts going on my car tomorrow. Funny thing is I'll likely burn through them this weekend at Laguna!

Not a chance!! I have four full track days on mine and expect to run Laguna as well as the next two days at Sears.

710's LAST...


KT

[Trekkor]

We have never allowed open wheeled vehicles at our events.

If I show up in a Formula Vee, I'll be turned away?


KT

[nine14cats]

Yes, you can make up your own classes for competition purposes. Also it take 3 or more competitors to form a special class.
the spirit of the rule was for Porsches.
We have never allowed open wheeled vehicles at our events.

Also, up until about 5-6 years ago....it was Porsches only.Currently PCA members can drive a non P car at events in fun class. Which do not acrew points for year end awards.
That was done years ago when our AX events were having trouble getting enough participants and at least breaking even financially.

It might be time to revisit that rule.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

My thoughts were that you could get the zoomies to "volunteer" to merge into 1 class for AX and let the street cars have more of a chance. TT's would need to looked at separately.

Tom Provasi's 914
Steve Nieslony's 914
Andrew Blyholder's 914
Randal Barrick's 914
Fritz (when brought out to the odd AX)

Most, if not all of these folks probably don't look at the classes, they are looking at how they did in relation to TTOD. But that brings up the whole car classification system, which is another thread onto itself.

I hope we don't outlaw non P cars at AX's....I was just getting excited by playing and socializing with my Honda iron....and I still own 3 P cars.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Bill P.