Has anyone heard of this long lost engineless REAL 914 GT in Marin Cou Options

[BenT]

I took a leisurely drive from San Francisco to te Marin Headlands yesterday. The fellow I met with used to work at a Porsche shop on San Rafael. Got a nice score. For $40 I got a pair of passenger side mirrors (no logo markings), pair of used foglights, roof storage clips, turnsignal housings, several boxes of miscellaneuous 914 hardware and switches, old German autoclub badge, etc. etc. Even got Vanagon turnsignal lamps and a taillight. All clean and were in dry storage -- $40.

Anyway, while chatting with this fellow, he mentioned an interesting car he found during his travels in Marin. I don't have a clear recollection of the exact location but I know it's in Marin. It's supposed to be a 914 GT with slightly more than 52 miles on it. The owner was going racing with it so the engine and transmission were removed. The owner got busy with life and the car sat covered in a garage with another Porsche sitting on the top shelf of the lift it was parked under. Over the years, the engine and transaxle got in the way and was sold off. The Owner's business eventually slowed down and he got around to looking over his toys. He then came to the realization that he had really screwed up by selling the drivetrain out of the GT. He was so upset at himself that he has not been able to do anything with the car. So there it sits under the cover still owned by the original purchaser for over 30 years now. The owner is wealthy enough to tell anyone asking to go screw themselves when they try to buy it. However, this old fella is getting -- well old. I don't wish this on anyone but he will pass on to greener racetracks one of these days. The car will likely come up for sale at that time as the guys kids have no interest in it.

It sounds like an important part of 914 history if the tale is accurate. I may need to take another trip to the Headlands to refresh my recollection about the exact location of this jewel. Is this possible? Is there really ay unaccounted for 914 GT floating around? My source appears to be quite knowledgeable about Porsches and is a genuine enthusiast. He has since retired from the car scene so has no further desire to pursue this quarry. I think his rebuffed multiple attempts to purchase was blown off by the owner too many times that he has just given up. He's into old Chevies now.

Fact or fairytale? I can't say right now. It's gotta be worth a bunch even w/o an engine and trans...

BenT

[gms]

BTW M-491 was full race version, I think this bulletin shows that the M-471 was meant for competition.

[gms]

For 1972:

M-471

[jgara962]

So does anyone have a count of how many *real GT's* vs. *customer GT's* were ever build and exist today? Gustl?

[gms]

M404
14 mm Sway Bars Front
16 mm Sway Bars Rear

M417
Pleuelstangen "Titan" statt Stahl

M436
100 Liter Fuel Tank

M475
Bilstein Sport Shocks Front and Rear

[gms]

M471
Steel GT Flares Front and Rear
6 J x 15 Alloy Wheels With 185/70 VR 15 Tires
5 1/2 J x 15 Alloy Wheels With 165 HR 15 Tires
66 mm Wheel Bolts
21 mm Distance Spacer Front and Rear

[gms]

M491
A. Suspension
Tiefergelegt
Bilstein Sport Shocks Front and Rear
14 mm Sway Bars Front
16 mm Sway Bars Rear
66 mm Wheel Bolts
27 mm Distance Spacer Front and Rear

B. Chassis
Combo Gauge from 911 S
10,000 RPM Tachometer

100 Liter Fuel Tank
Engine Lid With Enlarged Air Intake
Steel GT Flares Front and Rear

C. Engine
Weber 46 IDA
906 Carerra Engine 210 HP 8000 RPM

D. Transaxle
5 speed
7 : 31 Differential

[gms]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

but that is a "real" race car that actually was raced not a flared six car which some of the optioned M471 cars were just that, flared six cars.

Yes it was a car sold to Max Moritz and converted to an R
My point is:
1) M-471s were made for competition.

2) The title GT should be given to all 914/6s with race equipment installed and raced back in the day. (doc necessary)

3) The title factory 914/6 R is no more prestige then #2

I think the market prices of these cars will back this up

[914-8]

Since the M471 wasn't put together by the factory, and since the factory flares were readily available (still are??), it doesn't seem like an M471 car really should be worth much more than a regular 6. Some more, but not a ton.

Because basically, isn't it just a regular 6 that had flares put on it at a body shop here in the US after the car was sold? Spacers and 6x15 wheels too, but that's no biggie. I suppose you could go to a dealership today with some factory flares, wheels and spacers and have the dealership "create" an M471 6.

I guess it's kind of neat from a historical perspective, though. Thinking about the car in 1970 being ordered by some dude, checking off the M471 box, and the flares and wheels being put on the car when it was still new.

[Bleyseng]

BTW M-491 was full race version, I think this bulletin shows that the M-471 was meant for competition.

IMHO -Flares, 6x15 rims w/studs and spacers don't make a "real GT" six.

To me its an "Appearence" package


Now a six car with the "Sport kit" outfitted is a real GT cuz those parts were sold to make a GT car outta a regular six.

[gms]

There is no answer to this, Porsche does not have records of this.

I can only conclude that there is not a list that contains every car.
The Porsche Archives only contain the docs that I have posted.
I left Klaus Parr with a copy of the Homoligation papers and the telex.

[gms]

Since the M471 wasn't put together by the factory

Incorrect, they were installed by the factory

[gms]

BTW M-491 was full race version, I think this bulletin shows that the M-471 was meant for competition.

IMHO -Flares, 6x15 rims w/studs and spacers don't make a "real GT" six.

To me its an "Appearence" package


Now a six car with the "Sport kit" outfitted is a real GT cuz those parts were sold to make a GT car outta a regular six.

and a Carrera RS is only an appearance group car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Rusty]

So... according to the logic that a dealer prepared M-471 car is officially a GT car...

If I take a 914-6 to the dealer, with collected parts, and have them do the work... that car would be a GT?

-Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[914-8]

Since the M471 wasn't put together by the factory

Incorrect, they were installed by the factory

Cool, thanks. From reading the posts, I somehow got the idea it was a "dealer installed" option. That would seem silly, though, given you'd have to repaint the entire car!

Sooo, how much is an M471 car worth?? Have there been any recent sales of any?

[gms]

So... according to the logic that a dealer prepared M-471 car is officially a GT car...

If I take a 914-6 to the dealer, with collected parts, and have them do the work... that car would be a GT?

-Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

I never said all all M-471s are GTs (please read my earlier comments)
My point is that many were sent to dealers for race prep.
and some were race prepped into GTs i. e. 9141430332 & 9140431258


please refer to:
http://www.stazak.com/914/gt/car/car.html

This is how I categorize them, your opinions may very

[SirAndy]

I think this bulletin shows that the M-471 was meant for competition.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) like someone mentioned before, the factory had to produce (and sell?) a certain amount of those kits in order for those cars to qualify for the production classes.

the m471 package was basically a entry level package to get your 914-6 race-ready.

but in essence, geoff is correct, all you got was a flared 914-6 that was still street-legal.
and it is my understanding that a lot of them stayed that way and never made it into full blown race cars ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

[SirAndy]

Since the M471 wasn't put together by the factory ...
Because basically, isn't it just a regular 6 that had flares put on it at a body shop here in the US after the car was sold?

nope, m471 was available on order from the factory and they would weld in the flares etc. and ship it out that way ...

however, the package was also available for customer/dealer installation ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy

[jgara962]

I think this bulletin shows that the M-471 was meant for competition.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) like someone mentioned before, the factory had to produce (and sell?) a certain amount of those kits in order for those cars to qualify for the production classes.

the m471 package was basically a entry level package to get your 914-6 race-ready.

but in essence, geoff is correct, all you got was a flared 914-6 that was still street-legal.
and it is my understanding that a lot of them styed that way and never made it into full blown race cars ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

So, the m471 package is just a piece of a larger picture? It was one option listed out of several to make a car ready for competition. Customers could have the look of a GT, but still remain street legal and have the convenience of a normal road car.

[gms]

I think this bulletin shows that the M-471 was meant for competition.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) like someone mentioned before, the factory had to produce (and sell?) a certain amount of those kits in order for those cars to qualify for the production classes.

the m471 package was basically a entry level package to get your 914-6 race-ready.

but in essence, geoff is correct, all you got was a flared 914-6 that was still street-legal.
and it is my understanding that a lot of them styed that way and never made it into full blown race cars ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

Yup, more stock 6s became race cars than M-471
Most of the M-471s also came with the M-404 & M-475 packages (not that you couldnt do it yourself)

[SirAndy]

So, the m471 package is just a piece of a larger picture? It was one option listed out of several to make a car ready for competition. Customers could have the look of a GT, but still remain street legal and have the convenience of a normal road car.

that about sums it up. and some of those m471 cars were built into full race cars and some went on to make racing history, like the ones glenn pointed out.
those started out as m471 cars and were built into GTs.

the difference in opinion is if those were "real" GTs or not. my point of view is that a "real" GT was built by porsche, glenn's view is that any car with racing history, built to GT specs using factory parts qualifies as a "real" GT ...

just a different way of looking at things, really ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy