Has anyone heard of this long lost engineless REAL 914 GT in Marin Cou Options

[plymouth37]

don't care how rare, still slow, needs a subie...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[SirAndy]

don't care how rare, still slow, needs a subie...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

actually, i'd rather have a 3.6L aircooled flat 6 ...

oh, wait, i do!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy

[plymouth37]

don't care how rare, still slow, needs a subie...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

actually, i'd rather have a 3.6L aircooled flat 6 ...

oh, wait, i do!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy

touche good sir. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Gustl]

i guess it's a matter of opinion. instead of "real" GTs, you could call them "factory" GTs instead.
either way, yes, of course there were many more cars build to spec using the GT-kit by dealers, teams and individuals.

I agree, it's a matter of opinion ...

there are a few GTs raced by the factory
there are other GTs built by the factory - for various customers

there are some GTs built at official Porsche dealers, using the sports kit (=GT kit)
there are some GTs built at other dealers, using the sports kit

some of these cars have a huge racing history - others not

it's very difficult to state what car has to be called "real GT" and which not

I know a GT that was built by an official Porsche dealer using the sports kit, then sold to a customer. Not surprisingly the customer claims to have a "real GT", because he's bought a GT at the official Porsche dealer (even the primary Importer of the country).
But would you call this car now *only a GT* or a *real GT" ... ?

I guess this question is very tricky ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Gustl

[Gustl]

I remember there were more pictures of the car that Ben started the thread about when it was first "discovered" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

your memories are correct (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[BenT]

I remember there were more pictures of the car that Ben started the thread about when it was first "discovered" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I saw the pictures earlier this evening. Now I can't seem to find it. Found them by Google searching 'M471 Porsche'. Then cross-referenced with the pic that Tony had on earlier link he posted. Doesn't seen to come-up now. Maybe this is all a dream.

On another note, anybody here looking for a 1987 930S with bad paint? It's black over the original guards red. Woman I bought my /6 from just emailed me a few hours ago. I've seen the car but did not drive it. Tires were cracked. This thing has been sleeping under a car cover in NorCal for more han 3 years. Pmail me if you want particulars. I'm not buying it. Got one already.

BenT

[BenT]

I have a real GT........




An Opel GT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)


BenT

[ptravnic]

When I was 12yrs old I had a *real* GT....bmx bicycle that is. I remember it fondly - until it was stolen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Bleyseng]

Those 400 "Sportskits" weren't used up and were sold off later on to Parts Obsolete. Gary said he had a ton of them and sold them off to various people (ie racers) over the years.

So now a car with a "Sports Kit" is a real GT or not?

I look at it as it the car was build in the 69-72 years as a GT then its a real GT. After that its a clone as the Factory racing program was dead.

[Joe Bob]

I remember there were more pictures of the car that Ben started the thread about when it was first "discovered" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I saw the pictures earlier this evening. Now I can't seem to find it. Found them by Google searching 'M471 Porsche'. Then cross-referenced with the pic that Tony had on earlier link he posted. Doesn't seen to come-up now. Maybe this is all a dream.

On another note, anybody here looking for a 1987 930S with bad paint? It's black over the original guards red. Woman I bought my /6 from just emailed me a few hours ago. I've seen the car but did not drive it. Tires were cracked. This thing has been sleeping under a car cover in NorCal for more han 3 years. Pmail me if you want particulars. I'm not buying it. Got one already.

BenT

Sure....

[bd1308]

Intresting read.


Thx Guys!

I read it last ngiht at work.

[JeffBowlsby]

Here is a real 914GT and this is what the factory-installed M471 package included:

Just wanted to end any confusion... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

[ConeDodger]

Thanks for the M471 edumakashun.

here's the skinny ...

a "real" GT has been build by the porsche factory. some were raced by porsche, some were race by others, but they *all* were build by porsche in germany.

a "m471" is a 914-6 that had the m471 package installed by a dealership of your choice.
the m471 package was *not* a GT package, it was in fact a GT inspired upgrade for your 914-6 to make it look like a real GT ...

more of a visual upgrade than a performance upgrade.

but, the m471 package was a fairly rare option, not too many of them survived the years ...

so, in it's own regard, this car is fairly special, also because it has such low milage and is in decent shape overall ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) Andy

Andy,

Wasn't the intention of the M471 package to meet some homologation numbers?

If I recall correctly from my reading this was being pushed by the US head of VW which imported Porsche at the time. They needed a certain number of the GT cars to be in existance to go racing in a the GT class. I think the class got eliminated or the rules changed making the effort moot.
I have heard the argument about the M471 not being or being a real GT. If the above is true, it is a real GT. Just not a factory GT.

[gms]

IMHO
The term GT is reserved for cars that were prepared with varying amounts of factory parts to be raced in the Grand-Tourisme class in the races sanctioned by many organizations including but not limited to FIA, ADAC, IMSA, AvD & SCCA in the many race series of the early 1970’s. Jürgen Barth has also stated this as the opinion of Porsche.
(Source 1982 letter from Barth to Sidney Ho)

The factory provided cars in varying stages of race readiness according to the customer’s needs (as they always have). Cars with the M-471 package were provided to dealers (in the US) in 1971 for use in the SCCA B-Production class. These plans were foiled after lobbying by Corvette teams, which forced the GT into a different class. At that point Porsche-Audi withdrew its support and the cars were offered for sale as M-471s. Some of the M-471s were developed into racecars.
(Source 1971 Porsche-Audi press releases &1997 letter from Hoppen)

The purpose of the Telex sent to Josef Hoppen in 1971 was to show the SCCA that the factory produced a significant amount of these cars for racing purposes and that the factory provided parts for the DIY racers. (Source 1997 letter from Hoppen)

To deny 9140430691 (Moritz/Meaney GT), 9141430178 (’71 Moritz LeMan car) and 9140431415 (Lufthansa GT) as “real GTs” seems unreasonable to me. These cars have provided many of the class wins that have made the 914 a significant GT in FIA history.

I would consider 914/6 R models built by the factory no more special than a dealer built car that has a FIA race history such as the above-mentioned cars.

[gms]

PORSCHE/AUDI RACE PLANS FOR 1971

In a recent telephone interview, Josef Hoppen, Special Vehicles Manager at Porsche/Audi, revealed several new directions in their racing program for 1971. According to Hoppen, "the big team spirit has been detuned somewhat. We do not wish to compete against our customers; we sincerely want to support the efforts of our private competitors. For that reason, our racing program is a little smaller this year." Porsche/Audi will sponsor and provide financial assistance for three teams. On the east coast, Peter Gregg Racing will field one Group 4 914/6 GT for international races at Daytona, Sebring and Watkins Glen. Gregg's co-driver is expected to be Hurley Haywood. For SCCA National racing, three 914/6 GT's will be prepared for B Production. Bunker/Hindson Racing Team under the direction of Art Bunker will campaign one of the cars with Bob Hindson driving. Ginther Racing Team will have two 914/6 GT's for B Production competition on the west coast with Alan Johnson and Elliott Forbes-Robinson sharing the driving chores. Hoppen expressed great interest in expanding the lines of communication between his office and the private Porsche competitor.

He invites all competition drivers of all Porsche cars to get in touch with him. As new technical bulletins and information updates on competition cars come out, Hoppen will make these available to those drivers who have registered with his office. Write to Josef Hoppen, Special Vehicles Manager, Porsche/Audi Division, 600 Sylvan Ave., Englewood Cliffs, N.J. 07632.

[richardL]

I agree with Andy that this is not a real GT, in the sense that it was never built up for racing (by anyone). It is important to note that it is on the 'official' list of GTs that floats around though.

...and like Brad and Andy, I've touched it also and took a lot of the 'original' pictures of the underside, inside etc. when we first came across it.

Richard

[richardL]

Few of the pieces with the car...







R

[Bleyseng]

a 73 2.0L console wasn't offered in the six M471 option package.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[gms]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

[Bleyseng]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

but that is a "real" race car that actually was raced not a flared six car which some of the optioned M471 cars were just that, flared six cars.