Excellence Magazine 914 Valuations ..., prices are rising!! Options

[anthony]

Ooops, in my last post I meant to write:

I honestly haven't seen that.

[Mark Henry]

Grant, how much shop time on top of that $6000 to finish your conversion? We know you got a screaming deal of an engine for $2K and then you needed $4K in conversion parts. How much was the total bill with installation?

Yeh...I was wondering that as well, sounds like an illegal or backyard bubba for beer or crack.
Doesn't sound like a licensed shop putting food on the table for their families.

[Midtowner]

Is anyone else still waiting for their copy of Excellence to arrive in the mail other than me? I must be last on the list. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Bleyseng]

Look....old car and a bunch of us dumbasses who throw our money into something that doesn't pay a tinkers damn in resale. Whoopie shit! Welcome to the ownership of classic cars, don't matter which one, just pick something. Throw what you wish in the sucker and get it down the road. When something breaks "and it will" its back up on those purdy jackstands. Oh well such is life.

I've met tons of guys with six conversions that have $25-35K into their car. Why are they any more correct that the guy that buys a custom engine from Jake for $15K? I know guys that have $$$$ into a track car and spend $1K for a weekend of racing several times a year. Nobody tells them they are fools for pissing their money away. In the end it's just money and you can't take it with you. Spend it how you like.

But how about us guys who have those under $6,000 six conversions? There are more than just a few of us who have gone this route successfully and I did mine paying a mechanic to do the conversion.

I dont think people are fools for doing a T4. I'm likely to do a T4 car in the future! My biggest gripe is with this Raby guy and his quasi religious herd of sheep putting out disparging and untruthful information related to six conversions. I dont go around saying a Raby T4 will ruin your car. This Raby character has no problem going on his radio show and public forums telling people in the market for 914's that conversions ruin the car. Maybe if he spent more time just focusing on making his products better and less focused on bashing his competition there would be less emotion around this subject. But I dont think that fits Jakes business model.

I quote my prices based on what Brad Roberts quote me and on this site in the beginning. You remember who Brad is?? I "think" he knows his shit and what it costs to do this conversion yourself doing the work.

Now, if you scored a "once in a lifetime" deal on a six engine,, great more power to you.
I tried for 3 years to find a decent six engine in the NW (3.0l or 3.2) so don't tell me how easy it effin is to do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)


I am only one of the guys who respects Jake cuz he actually does R&D and makes or has made quality 4 parts.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

[Lou W]

Is anyone else still waiting for their copy of Excellence to arrive in the mail other than me? I must be last on the list. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I finally got mine yesterday

[grantsfo]

Grant, how much shop time on top of that $6000 to finish your conversion? We know you got a screaming deal of an engine for $2K and then you needed $4K in conversion parts. How much was the total bill with installation?

My biggest gripe is with this Raby guy and his quasi religious herd of sheep putting out disparging and untruthful information related to six conversions.

I honestly haven't seen that. There aren't even that many guys in the Raby herd around here.

To me, the sad thing is that there isn't any other engine builder out there advancing the type IV cause like Jake is. If they are, they must be keeping it a secret because they don't post here, they don't share information, and they don't market to 914 owners.

If I wanted to buy a 2270 kit, where else could I comparison shop for one? Where could I even buy the parts and know they would fit together?

$4000 in conversion parts? ....the $6000 included engine, parts and labor to install the engine. It only took me 2 weeks to find 4 engines that would have worked for under $4000. I spent every hour looking at used engine sites, craigslist, ebay, etc. People would be suprized to learn how many cheap engines are out there that are in good shape. In two more weeks my car was running and on the road.

And I agree Mr. Raby does a great job with T4 development. I just dont appreciate his constant put downs of six conversions. I understand that for every conversion he loses potential market, but I have never understood why an industry figure such as Mr Raby feels he has to attack alterntives to his $T4 wizardy. His work should stand on its own merit. I think it does, but he seems to have doubts.

..and Mark H, that back yard bubba that did my conversion has done over 25 conversions including those of other non-club members. Geez who poked you with the sheering scissors? ...and there is a world out there beyond this board that knows a thing or two about 914's. I never bought the hype on this board about six conversions being tremendously expensive and pretty much proved it in short order.

[914Sixer]

I recieved my Excellence today and was astounded by the prices. If the word gets out to the public, every POS parts car will be starting at $1000. If the cars are going up that much in value, why aren't the parts worth more!!!

As for 6 conversions, I picked up a running 2.4 MFI delivered to my door for $750. Yes, I paid a premium for the the orignal parts for the conversion but the tab came to $3k total.

[Mueller]

And I agree Mr. Raby does a great job with T4 development. I just dont appreciate his constant put downs of six conversions. I understand that for every conversion he loses potential market, but I have never understood why an industry figure such as Mr Raby feels he has to attack alterntives to his $T4 wizardy. His work should stand on its own merit. I think it does, but he seems to have doubts.

..and Mark H, that back yard bubba that did my conversion has done over 25 conversions including those of other non-club members. Geez who poked you with the sheering scissors? ...and there is a world out there beyond this board that knows a thing or two about 914's. I never bought the hype on this board about six conversions being tremendously expensive and pretty much proved it in short order.

as long as one can find "disposable, hand me down /6's that might or might not blow up in the near future", people will always bitch about expensive near-new-0-miles big /4 motors....I don't get the comparisons....same goes with the Subaru conversions...as long as one can get cheap JDM or autowrecker motors, these people will knock a newly rebuilt performance /4....try pricing brand new aftermarket Subaru parts....$2K for pistons, $1.5K+ for cams....complete turnkey motors go for $12K+

I like 'em all, I just don't have to try and draw totally unfair comparisons...you cannot compare a used /6 engine with a near brand new /4 based purely on cost...

[grantsfo]

...you cannot compare a used /6 engine with a near brand new /4 based purely on cost...

I did. I looked into cost of a Raby built T4 (spent the time talking to Jake and had verbal quotes), I investigated the investment of a T4 kit and having somone build it for me and I thoroughly assessed what was involved in a conversion with a used six. The used six conversion made the most sense to me after interviewing several well respected 914 enthusiasts and mechanics. It was the easiest turn key solution for my circumstance. But again similar to you I like most 914 engine options. I just dont have a T4 agenda with profit motives that skew my opinions as some six bashers do. I'm really just an objective minded 914 hobbiest with no financial ties to one engine platform or another.

Now the real sickness happens after the six engine conversion. I have spent far more on wide body conversion, 5 lug conversion, suspension mods, roll cage, assorted body parts, oil cooler, short ratio transmission, track oriented upgrades, wheels and tires. The engine was really the cheap part of the game for me.

So back to topic where do small displacement conversion sixes fall in the valuation mix? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[anthony]

Grant, we'll have to call your car the Immaculate Conception. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I mean you got the killer deal on the engine, the conversion parts and on the shop labor to put it together.

My 2270 with 160 foot pounds of torque will still come in cheaper.

[Jake Raby]

Grant, we'll have to call your car the Immaculate Conception. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I mean you got the killer deal on the engine, the conversion parts and on the shop labor to put it together.

But the question is:

When it breaks, will he tell us??

I couldn't resist!!

[914werke]

So back to topic where do small displacement conversion sixes fall in the valuation mix?

That wasnt the topic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)
The topic was 914 valuations related to the recent artical in Excellence. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)
So BOT why arent the LE's listed in his artical(s)?

[grantsfo]

Grant, we'll have to call your car the Immaculate Conception. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I mean you got the killer deal on the engine, the conversion parts and on the shop labor to put it together.

My 2270 with 160 foot pounds of torque will still come in cheaper.

OK you know me so I'm saying this in spirit of fun. Really? If you count your hours assembling the engine, all the parts nessary for rebuild, machining cost, fuel delivery (are you going with $$$$carbs or $$$$$$$$$aftermarket FI?). Are you installing a new clutch to handle all that new found power? Also the clock is ticking. Will you have your engine assembled and running in the car in two weeks? Didnt you indicate you ordered the 2270 kit recently?

All kidding aside this is going to be great! I have been looking forward to seeing one of Jakes engine kits in the Bay Area. If you get it assemebled and running I think you will be one of the few here with that have a running Raby inspired engine.

Hey once your finished we should have a drag race. My 2.4 is a torquey little engine too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[anthony]

OK you know me so I'm saying this in spirit of fun.

I know you're just joking around. I don't think even Jake takes your pokes seriously anymore. :-)

Yes, I just ordered the kit so it's obviously not going to be done in two weeks. That's fine because I wouldn't have time to work on it in the next month or two anyway. The kit includes a new clutch and pressure plate balanced from fan to pressure plate.

It doesn't even look like putting all together is really going to take that much time. The tear down to pull the core crank only took me 2 hours. But really I'm looking forward to the build up.

I haven't decided yet what to do with fueling but I'm leaning towards SDS EFI or Megasquirt. Even purchasing SDS outright for fuel only is around $1200 with the o2 sensor kit. Megasquirt can be done for $500 or less. New Webers can be done for $1100 - used $500. Even with the most expensive fueling option I'll be under your $6000 (though very close).

[SirAndy]

resell-value is for weenies ...

i'm just about done dropping another $15k into my car, that'll bring the total well over $30k ...

and i'm already thinking about taking it all apart (again) and acid-dip it and redo it from scratch ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

resell-value can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/KMA.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/owned.gif) Andy

[anthony]

Oh yeah, drag race - you're on!

[Jake Raby]

Are you installing a new clutch to handle all that new found power?

Thats part of all my kits.. It has to be to offer a fully balanced rotating mass.

A customer that had never assembled an engine before put his kit together in two weekends from start to finish. With the prep work and configuration of the kit all of the hard/guess work is complete out of the box. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

When I finish the 2270 video over the winter the ease of assembly can't get any easier..

[Mueller]

OK you know me so I'm saying this in spirit of fun.

I know you're just joking around. I don't think even Jake takes your pokes seriously anymore. :-)

Yes, I just ordered the kit so it's obviously not going to be done in two weeks. That's fine because I wouldn't have time to work on it in the next month or two anyway. The kit includes a new clutch and pressure plate balanced from fan to pressure plate.

It doesn't even look like putting all together is really going to take that much time. The tear down to pull the core crank only took me 2 hours. But really I'm looking forward to the build up.

I haven't decided yet what to do with fueling but I'm leaning towards SDS EFI or Megasquirt. Even purchasing SDS outright for fuel only is around $1200 with the o2 sensor kit. Megasquirt can be done for $500 or less. New Webers can be done for $1100 - used $500. Even with the most expensive fueling option I'll be under your $6000 (though very close).

slight hi-jack....Anthony, the guys that started Megasquirt is coming out with a new ECU, factory installed surface mounted components with a proper connector and case (similar to a MoTec)...no screwing around with soldering and such....target price is $350...still no "factory" support, but there is enough help to figure out the setup and tuning....1st 50 prototypes are fuel only and are being tested as we speak....once proven, then they'll ad spark control and who knows what else.....

[thomasotten]

I think you will be one of the few here with that have a running Raby inspired engine

I think, that being it is an entire "kit", it isn't proper to say "Raby inspired". I think the term "raby inspired" is used to refer to engines that are built using some of Mr. Raby's ideas, but not as one of his complete kits. I could be wrong, though....

[anthony]

slight hi-jack....Anthony, the guys that started Megasquirt is coming out with a new ECU, factory installed surface mounted components with a proper connector and case (similar to a MoTec)...no screwing around with soldering and such....target price is $350...still no "factory" support, but there is enough help to figure out the setup and tuning....1st 50 prototypes are fuel only and are being tested as we speak....once proven, then they'll ad spark control and who knows what else.....

Wow, that sounds pretty good. Fiid and Jeff were very encouraging on Megasquirt. I've been thinking that I might do like Jeff and get MS all working on my current engine so that by the time I build my 2270 I'll have the experience and a working system and won't be experimenting on a new engine.

Is there a link where I can read about this? I don't see it mentioned on megasquirt.info.