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> Seat belt harness: Ticket for not wearing, The trial and result.
Air_Cooled_Nut
post Oct 29 2003, 01:50 PM
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Just an FYI. Details here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1087277
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Brad Roberts
post Oct 29 2003, 01:54 PM
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Good job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) Very thorough.


B
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SirAndy
post Oct 29 2003, 01:57 PM
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we need a copy of that in our info (or where else?) section ...

Andy
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Hawktel
post Oct 29 2003, 02:59 PM
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Man thats cool. Way to go.
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ChrisReale
post Oct 29 2003, 03:12 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) Good job. I wear a Sabelt 4 pointer. I always wondered what Cops would say to me if they pulled me over for wearing it....Thanks for the important info. I want to vote to nominate that write up to classic status
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JWest
post Oct 29 2003, 03:15 PM
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Please note, that most harnesses are NOT legal and you would not win that fight with other brands.

The Schroth are special in that they have a break-away section in one of the shoulder straps to allow them to act like a 3-point in a crash. Schroth went to the trouble to get TUV and Fed approval, but not so for the other (racing only) harness makers. Just so you know...

I think this is a case of the ricers getting us in trouble by running improperly installed Pep-boys harnesses and alerting the cops to look for it.
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fiid
post Oct 29 2003, 03:30 PM
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I don't get how in hell a 5/6 point harness can be considered less safe than a 3 point (having been in a significant wreck with a 3 point, and having sported the bruising) I would have much rather had some extra strapping when I was rolled.

Aside from that - which Schroth harness do you have?? Is it possible to use a 5/6 point as a 4 point for normal street driving and then use the sub straps when on the track??

Fiid.
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JWest
post Oct 29 2003, 03:33 PM
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It really comes down to whether the harness has a DOT tag on it - not how safe it really is...
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fiid
post Oct 29 2003, 03:34 PM
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Is there anything to say you can't wear both, also - like just strap the stock belt over the top of a harness?

Fiid.
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JWest
post Oct 29 2003, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE(fiid @ Oct 29 2003, 01:34 PM)
Is there anything to say you can't wear both, also - like just strap the stock belt over the top of a harness?

Fiid.

I dunno...

If you look at a Schoth listing, they make both competition (not legal) and street legal harnesses (Autocontrol and Rallye). The Autocontrol that the guy had WAS street legal so he was able to win in court.
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fiid
post Oct 29 2003, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE(James Adams @ Oct 29 2003, 01:33 PM)
It really comes down to whether the harness has a DOT tag on it - not how safe it really is...

That's (very sadly) true.

Same shit as the FAA. The only thing really proven to save lives in airline crashes is to turn the seats around the other way.

grrrrrr.



I looked at the Schloth line - looks like I want the FE series - 4 point upgradeable to 5 or 6 point for competition use. Seems to be street legal in US, Elsewhere, and FIA approved. Nice stuff.

Fiid.
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silver six
post Oct 29 2003, 03:58 PM
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Great story. Nice work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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cha914
post Oct 29 2003, 04:32 PM
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Just a quick add on...Unless you have a full cage, it is actually LESS safe to have a 4-5 point harness in your car. These belts are designed to hold you in place, that means if you are wearing them properly then you should not be able to move anything other than your arms and legs while driving. In this situation, if your car rolls or in a heavy impact your body will not be able to move at all and as the car crushes you could suffer much greater injury than if you were wearing a stock 3point.

I am sure most people know this, but there are some that don't and may not realize what a large risk they are taking untill it is too late.

Otherwise, Congrats Toby for sticking up for yourself and winning!

Tony
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olav
post Oct 29 2003, 04:37 PM
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You had to prove your innocence?

Isn't that backwards?

The cop didn't know the law and falsely charged you, is that correct?

So, they can go around and accuse people of shit and put the onus on the falsely accused to prove their innocence.

I must be wrong here.
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SirAndy
post Oct 29 2003, 04:39 PM
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QUOTE(olav @ Oct 29 2003, 02:37 PM)
So, they can go around and accuse people of shit and put the onus on the falsely accused to prove their innocence.

where have you been all your life ???
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fiid
post Oct 29 2003, 04:40 PM
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Is that true? I would think in a collision situation the movement afforded you by a 3 point harness wouldn't be enough (not would there be enough time) to get out of the way....???

I do plan on getting a full cage anyway,... but is there more nfo??

Fiid.
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Air_Cooled_Nut
post Oct 29 2003, 05:50 PM
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This is what I have (black):
QUOTE
asm autocontrol® II

3-Point Automatic Harnessbelt
Combines an inertia-real for optimal comfort and easy use with the added security of dual shoulder straps. The inertia-real instantly locks during abnormal movement keeping you safe in your seat.

Shoulder and lap belts: 50mm (2") webbing.
Single push-button buckle for connection and release.

For some motor vehicle types fittings are necessary. (find in our accessories list)

(IMG:http://www.schroth.com/bilder/asm_autocontrol.gif)


It does allow you to move about. When power is lost or the angle sensor is more than 25-degrees or if you are taking a hard turn, you are locked in. I originally had this in my stock seated Squareback and when turning a corner it felt as if I was in a racing seat -- my body wasn't moving, period!

I highly doubt this seat belt would work in a 914 -- Porsches aren't even on the approved vehicles listing Schroth gives.

In my Jetta I'm able to open the passenger door or window, mount my Valentine 1, play with the radio, squeeze my girlfriend's...well, you get the picture. Oh, and it gives me that safe, warm, fuzzy feeling inside whenever I wear it so if peace-of-mind counts then it has that as well. The nice thing about the ASM is that it acts like it has an anti-submarining belt in the middle. Something to do with the way it pivots your hips to keep you from shattering your knee caps against the dash during an accident. Hey, it passes the almighty DOT and I'm invincible (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Schroth web site here.
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Jeroen
post Oct 29 2003, 05:58 PM
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If the car rolls (and crushes the roofstructure) with a stock 3point belt your body has room to move sideways and you might not get crushed
With a harness, you are stuck in upright posistion while the roof is collapsing... not good

cheers,

Jeroen
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Andyrew
post Oct 29 2003, 06:22 PM
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Thats one thing I dont want to run into with my car, I have 5 points with the Y harness and the sub belt, so its a 4 point to the body.. And its Simpson.. I have yet to be even noticed my the cops, but Im sure I will sooner or later..

Good job defending yourself!!

Andrew
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Air_Cooled_Nut
post Oct 29 2003, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE(Jeroen @ Oct 29 2003, 03:58 PM)
If the car rolls (and crushes the roofstructure) with a stock 3point belt your body has room to move sideways and you might not get crushed
With a harness, you are stuck in upright posistion while the roof is collapsing... not good

cheers,

Jeroen

Yeah, anything is possible and there is no safety system that will guarantee freedom from bodily harm. For the vast majority of accidents, there won't be a roof cave-in, and the harness is safer than the typical stock belt. They aren't used on production vehicles due to cost and they are a bit of a pain to get into for the average consumer.

Interesting to see the statistics at NHTSA show that there isn't too much of a difference between deaths where a restraint was used (41%) and was not used (59%). For more details on fatal/non-fatal accidents by vehicle type and rollover occurance see http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NC...n/TSF2002EE.pdf and look to document pages 64 & 65.
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