What first? Options

[ChrisReale]

I have 180 lb springs and Koni Sports all around. Stock toothpick sized sway bar up front. What would be the first thing you would do...
1. Put in a 22mm Sway Bar
2. Put in 22mm Torsoin bars
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Mueller]

I'd go with the swaybar...it's adjustable, the torsion bars are not.

[campbellcj]

I'll give ya my standard response:

1) What is your intended purpose for the car? (daily driver, weekend/special event enjoyment, autox, DE/track, concours?)

2) Read the Rule Book(s), if applicable

3) Budget?

[ChrisReale]

Thats what I thought too. Mueller, what is yor opinion of the Tarret bar?

[Bleyseng]

What size and type of tires are you running?
To stay in stock class in PCANW you can run 60 series tires.
No one will look at the 180lb springs.
People will look at larger than stock sway bar.
People will look at your shocks which are ok in stock.
Generally, the combo is 22mm sway bar, 22 tbars, 180 springs, no rear bar(disconnected), 205x50x15's tires of a sticky compound(Kuhmo Victoracers or a street one). This set up sticks you in GTU which is a tough class. Not running at the very bottom is good, running in the middle means you are doing good, running in the top five means you are smokin or dreaming in your sleep.
Build a balanced car that you can drive both in the right class for you and for on the street. If you haven't noticed the streets in Seattle suck!
Get the car aligned and corner balanced after you decide and set the car up. Don't keep making changes just drive and drive the car to get as much seat time. Then next year change it for the class you want to compete in and how you want the car to drive and feel.
Geoff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

[J P Stein]

IMO, 180 lb springs are too much with stock T bars/sway bar.....they will make it LOOSE. 140s are a better choice.
I was able to get a nice slight oversteer condition
using an adjustable front sway bar and the 140 lb springs......set soft, so your small sway bar may be OK....close enuff that tire pressure can get you where you wanna go.

Geoff's right, just drive, butt time is the key.
DD tole me that back a bit....the only time he's been right, me thinks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Get the car handling decent early in the season, then leave it alone. Then you can measure your driving improvments.
You can work on hot rodding the car for the rest of your winters (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

[Van914]

My car had Koni Sorits and 140lb rear springs with stock front and rear sway bars. With it aligned correctly it handled the AX like a dream and was a pleasure on the street. Now the car is set up for DE and has 22mm Tbars and a 19mm Front sway bar with 180lb rear springs. It is great on the track but rides like a go kart on the street no bump too small! I vote for 140lb springs and front and rear bars for a car driven on the street.
Van

[mskala]

Just askin': why do people go to 22mm front torsion
bars when they have 180 lb rear springs? The rate
of the 21 turns out to be about 175lbs, so it would
seem that 22 would be too stiff, especially for a 914
which is lighter up front (moreso in the -6).

I don't DE experience, but I run 21 front, 180 rear, and
I have the small weltmeister bar in front, set really
loose for AX.
Mark S.
'70 914-6

[ChrisReale]

I guess I should have stated a few more things in my firts post.
I am going to ax it. I know that right now the car oversteers like hell, because , well, Its happened a few times. I am keeping the 180# springs. I am getting a 22mm sway bar to replace the 16mm stock one. The stock bar is still there because its better than nothing, and I just havent gotten around to removing it. I was just wondering what would be a better choice to replace first. I am thinking the sway bar..

[airsix]

I'm with JP. That combo (180# rears and stock fronts) is a scary-loose combo with a stock front sway bar. Scary-big oversteer. "I'm going 70mph backwards and I'm going to die" oversteer.
If you are going to keep the 180# rears then start saving your $ and get a 19mm or larger front sway bar AND 21mm or 22mm torsion bars. That is if you are sure you want to stay with 180# rears. That's what I run, but I'm nuts. I'm running the 180#'s, 21mm torsion bars and 19mm sway bar set at medium. Even with that setup its loose (not scary loose, but plenty loose none the less*).

-Ben M.

*plenty loose = only got away from me twice last year.

[Brad Roberts]

Chris.

Buy Olavs 140's for now and save your money.

He just listed them last night on the classifieds (after I replaced them with 200's for his six)

Start out soft and "feel" the car react to your inputs. This suggestion is way out of line for me.. I normally send you out on full kill like I did this past weekend with a rookie.


B

[Jeroen]

Brad wrote: "I normally send you out on full kill like I did this past weekend with a rookie."

Do you have any other nasty tricks up your sleeve we should be aware of???

cheers,

Jeroen

[ChrisReale]

Out of curiosity, why is Olav selling his springs for $200? New Welts cost $100???

[Brad Roberts]

Ask him. He probably didnt know the new price. I think they came on his car when he bought it....so he doesnt have a receipt for them (totally guessing here)


Jeroen,

I spend "quality" time with people before we ever set you in a seat. I decide over a few days of talking with you whether you've got it or your going to get it. Some of us have it some of us dont. I factor in things like: what you did in the past, what you drove/rode in the past, what sporting activities you participated in and may or may not have done very well. Its a pretty easy process. I find people with a lot of sports in their background or somebody who has ridden motorcycles to have a lot more "feeling" for balance than people who are techno nerds and have pushed keys their entire life. My wife picks up sporting activities and driving stuff very very quickly (she was a gymnast for years) Her balance is amazing.

That is one little part of how I determine how your car gets setup. The guy I took out this weekend (Britain is his name) has played water polo for years and also sails boats. He is/was a competition swimmer.

B

[Jeroen]

If you're going that direction...

For some reason I feel that car balance resembles a lot to the way you balance while skiing (or snowboarding)

cheers,

Jeroen

[Dave_Darling]

Some folks dislike the idea of balancing the two ends of the car with different methods. That is, if you have stiff springs on the rear of the car, they'd rather see you put stiff torsion bars on the front than a stiffer front sway bar.

I can see the merits of that idea. However, I have the normal PCA Zone 7 "improved" category setup--stock torsions, 140# rear springs, 19mm front sway bar, no rear bar.

--DD

[Brad Roberts]

You have my concept loud and clear. People with good balance tend to learn faster (it doesnt really mean that they are better drivers) they just understand faster what the car is doing. Leaving a car soft really "translates" what the car is doing.


B