 GGR AutoX rules, Just re-read them |
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| Randal |
 Oct 10 2006, 12:30 PM
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#1
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Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750  |
From the GGR rule book:
a. Course boundaries shall be determined by existing terrain and/or white chalk lines or equivalent, and outlined with pylons. The base of each pylon shall be outlined on the pavement with no part of the pylon located inside the course boundary. b. Course boundaries shall remain the same for all drivers. If, while on course, a driver observes a course change, he must stop immediately and report the course change to course personnel, at which time the driver is to leave the course by the most direct route and be given an official re-run. c. Course width shall be a minimum width of twenty feet, and any turn or chicane shall have a minimum inside radius of twenty-five feet. What this says is that cones are to be placed outside the chalk lines and that the minimum radiuses for a turn, between those chalk lines is 25 feet. So whoever is laying out the course needs to make sure that the cones are more than the 20 foot/ 25 foot minimums to take account of the width of the chalk machine, i.e., this translates to probably 22 /27 foot minimums (before running the chalk machine through) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) . FYI at the start of the last Alameda event there were a couple of turns (before the timing light) that were substantially less than 25 feet minimum. Also the first turn following the starting line the corner radius was again (substantially) less than 25 foot (net) minimum. If anyone finds situations that don't meet specification it warrants letting the chairperson know so that the course doesn't get protested and times thrown out. |
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| grantsfo |
Oct 10 2006, 01:29 PM
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#2
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
Oh that would ruin the fun! I have just accepted that GGR events will be narrow cone fest venues designed to favor the old cone wizard society in charge.
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| ConeDodger |
Oct 10 2006, 03:37 PM
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#3
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,575 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California 
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QUOTE(Randal @ Oct 10 2006, 11:30 AM)  From the GGR rule book: a. Course boundaries shall be determined by existing terrain and/or white chalk lines or equivalent, and outlined with pylons. The base of each pylon shall be outlined on the pavement with no part of the pylon located inside the course boundary. b. Course boundaries shall remain the same for all drivers. If, while on course, a driver observes a course change, he must stop immediately and report the course change to course personnel, at which time the driver is to leave the course by the most direct route and be given an official re-run. c. Course width shall be a minimum width of twenty feet, and any turn or chicane shall have a minimum inside radius of twenty-five feet. What this says is that cones are to be placed outside the chalk lines and that the minimum radiuses for a turn, between those chalk lines is 25 feet. So whoever is laying out the course needs to make sure that the cones are more than the 20 foot/ 25 foot minimums to take account of the width of the chalk machine, i.e., this translates to probably 22 /27 foot minimums (before running the chalk machine through) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) . FYI at the start of the last Alameda event there were a couple of turns (before the timing light) that were substantially less than 25 feet minimum. Also the first turn following the starting line the corner radius was again (substantially) less than 25 foot (net) minimum. If anyone finds situations that don't meet specification it warrants letting the chairperson know so that the course doesn't get protested and times thrown out. I wonder what existing terrain means? Does this mean that if you run the course along the water line at Alameda you don't need to let people know they shouldn't go in the water? Give me a visual on this... |
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| DanT |
Oct 10 2006, 03:48 PM
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#4
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Randal, this is what I have been harping on the AX chairs about all season. Course designers are coming up with courses without knowing the minimum standards. Like our last course for #8 at the Stick. Half of the course was lined on the outside of the cones and half was on the inside of the cones. And it changed depending on where you were on the course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
If BillD accepts my course design for AX #9 we can hopefully avoid a lot of these issues. I have it designed so we will have ~30 minimum everywhere on course. No loops or double back type boxes. A course similar to what I designed for the Zone7 AX school....the one you helped me with Randal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I am still working on some of the details... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Course should be tough on taildraggers....non-stop transitions thru out the entire course. No long straights to speak of.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) Should be a nice course for Boxsters and 914s....more momentum. But you never know how a course will shape up until you drive it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| maitaiken |
Oct 10 2006, 05:26 PM
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#5
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Old "teener" Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 30-August 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,708 |
And exactly why would we want a course that would be tough on taildraggers?..................OOPS this is the 914club site not the 911club site. Sorry my apologies, I'll be quiet now. LOL
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| nine14cats |
Oct 10 2006, 05:32 PM
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#6
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Oct 10 2006, 02:48 PM) Randal, this is what I have been harping on the AX chairs about all season. Course designers are coming up with courses without knowing the minimum standards. Like our last course for #8 at the Stick. Half of the course was lined on the outside of the cones and half was on the inside of the cones. And it changed depending on where you were on the course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) If BillD accepts my course design for AX #9 we can hopefully avoid a lot of these issues. I have it designed so we will have ~30 minimum everywhere on course. No loops or double back type boxes. A course similar to what I designed for the Zone7 AX school....the one you helped me with Randal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I am still working on some of the details... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Course should be tough on taildraggers....non-stop transitions thru out the entire course. No long straights to speak of.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) Should be a nice course for Boxsters and 914s....more momentum. But you never know how a course will shape up until you drive it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) My next course design was going to be an oval out at Alameda. Kinda like qualifying at the indy 500. I'd put a box right at the end to slow everybody right before the trap..... Probably a taildragger course....something Fritz would like! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Bill P. |
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| DanT |
Oct 10 2006, 05:32 PM
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#7
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Hey, Ken, get back to work, er, just get back to whatever you are supposed to be doing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif)
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| maitaiken |
Oct 10 2006, 05:43 PM
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#8
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Old "teener" Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 30-August 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,708 |
Sorry about that I just had my company picture taken and the flash got me in the eyes and I thought I was on the 911 site. At least I am still at work and not at home having a cold one. haha
Ken... |
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| DanT |
Oct 10 2006, 05:48 PM
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#9
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(maitaiken @ Oct 10 2006, 04:43 PM) Sorry about that I just had my company picture taken and the flash got me in the eyes and I thought I was on the 911 site. At least I am still at work and not at home having a cold one. haha Ken... Was that a picture of the inmates or the guards? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| Brad Roberts |
Oct 10 2006, 06:05 PM
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#10
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
I can think of two other bay area shop owners who have probably already had a drink or three (by 5pm..LOL)
No names, but one of them drinks a LOT of Yager and the other likes Budweiser (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) I just wish all the different orgs would get on the same page with their rules. I *thought* PCA was big enough that we could have NATIONAL RULES. If I build a car in SD.. it doesnt fit anywhere else in the USA with PCA. DUMB. Plain STUPID. If I build an SCCA car.. it can be ran anywhere in the USA/thus sold anywhere. Rant over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif) B |
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| DanT |
Oct 10 2006, 06:10 PM
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#11
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Oct 10 2006, 05:05 PM) I can think of two other bay area shop owners who have probably already had a drink or three (by 5pm..LOL) No names, but one of them drinks a LOT of Yager and the other likes Budweiser (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) I just wish all the different orgs would get on the same page with their rules. I *thought* PCA was big enough that we could have NATIONAL RULES. If I build a car in SD.. it doesnt fit anywhere else in the USA with PCA. DUMB. Plain STUPID. If I build an SCCA car.. it can be ran anywhere in the USA/thus sold anywhere. Rant over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif) B I agree Brad, National has a set of rules for parade but I don't think any regions at least on the west coast use them... It would make things much easier, and as you say it would be nice to be able to run or sell your car anywhere and it would still be legal... |
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| grantsfo |
Oct 10 2006, 06:18 PM
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#12
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Oct 10 2006, 05:05 PM) I can think of two other bay area shop owners who have probably already had a drink or three (by 5pm..LOL) No names, but one of them drinks a LOT of Yager and the other likes Budweiser (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) B ....hmmm wonder who that might be? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| Brad Roberts |
Oct 10 2006, 06:18 PM
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#13
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Your past two Zone presidents promised some changes over the next few years as the PCA national president will probably be a "younger" person. I spent a LOT of time discussing communication "ideas" with both Larry and Tim at different times. Tim was one of the first people to seek me out at events and ask me "how" to get the 914 people more involved with PCA. He also wanted to know how in the hell we managed to assemble 50 some odd cars for our own AutoX back in 04..LOL
He introduced me to some top PCA players at Texas parade in 04. He knew that we had a good thing going here with the 914Club. PCA's concern was all the "splinter" groups being formed. They sat me down and asked a lot of questions. I told them what I thought and how I felt about PCA. None of it negative, just thoughts and idea's on how to better communicate with the regions and to seek out the core movers and shakers in each Zone. Then we got hammered and kicked out of the Zone7 party in Tim's room..LOL B |
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| 914forme |
Oct 10 2006, 06:51 PM
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#14
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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My region and Zone follow the PCRs it does make it easier to travel and have interzone compitions. It makes it easier to travel and goto parade. The worse part is they don't match up well with other groups. SCCA especially. You can make it work sure, but it is compromise all around unless you run SM or Mod and M in PCA.
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| Trekkor |
Oct 10 2006, 07:45 PM
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#15
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Rotten Robby @ Oct 10 2006, 02:37 PM) I wonder what existing terrain means? Does this mean that if you run the course along the water line at Alameda you don't need to let people know they shouldn't go in the water? Give me a visual on this... This applies to the Shultz airport in Santa Rosa. Grass....Please stay off the grass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) KT |
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| DanT |
Oct 10 2006, 08:27 PM
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#16
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(trekkor @ Oct 10 2006, 06:45 PM) QUOTE(Rotten Robby @ Oct 10 2006, 02:37 PM) I wonder what existing terrain means? Does this mean that if you run the course along the water line at Alameda you don't need to let people know they shouldn't go in the water? Give me a visual on this... This applies to the Shultz airport in Santa Rosa. Grass....Please stay off the grass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) KT Exactly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| grantsfo |
Oct 10 2006, 08:35 PM
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#17
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(trekkor @ Oct 10 2006, 06:45 PM) This applies to the Shultz airport in Santa Rosa. Grass....Please stay off the grass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) KT Don't forget the Sheriffs cars at the turn around either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) |
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| maitaiken |
Oct 10 2006, 09:00 PM
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#18
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Old "teener" Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 30-August 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,708 |
I would vote for PCA National rules if for no other reason then to eliminate what happened to GGR this year. It was like a bunch of vigilantes rode into town robbed then bank and ran off into the sunset.
Note to Brad, I only drink 2 kinds of beer, "free' and "ice cold" Ken... |
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| J P Stein |
Oct 10 2006, 09:25 PM
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#19
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
There are 42 classes under the PCAs PCRs.... plus a like amount for ladies.
We use a condensed small region AX version recommended by the National. The SCCA & PCAs rules will never jibe.....it's apples & oranges. You want "younger"? Go a regional SCCA AX. Lots of young folks at these events and are often run by guys around 30. If you think that is a good thing......you need some aging (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
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| ConeDodger |
Oct 10 2006, 10:39 PM
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#20
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,575 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
QUOTE(trekkor @ Oct 10 2006, 06:45 PM) QUOTE(Rotten Robby @ Oct 10 2006, 02:37 PM) I wonder what existing terrain means? Does this mean that if you run the course along the water line at Alameda you don't need to let people know they shouldn't go in the water? Give me a visual on this... This applies to the Shultz airport in Santa Rosa. Grass....Please stay off the grass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) KT Ooops! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Already Fuched that up didn't I? That doggone Monster Tach fell out of the dash plate and I tried to shove it back in. I got it back in and next thing I know I am backassward in the ahem... "Shultz Grass" Grant heard my clutch go in and thought I had shifted but what I did was lift / clutch / push tach in / clutch out / hammer down / spin - wheeeeee! Quick note to self. When tach falls out you cannot hammer it in a turn. |
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