 Initial Diagnosis, Fritz is hurt... |
|
|
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
|
  |
| nine14cats |
 Oct 12 2006, 09:51 PM
Post
#21
|
|
Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo  Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None  |
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Oct 12 2006, 06:03 PM)  QUOTE I dont know how else the valves would have bent unless a piston or 3 came apart and hit the valves. Missed shift =mechanical overrev= bent exhaust valves I missed a shift in my 914-6 with the 2.8 on July 4th, 2004 weekend at Buttonwillow. I know what that does to a motor. This last event I did not miss a shift or over rev the car. I have the rev light / shift point on the car set to 6K RPM, well below the 6800 RPM redline. This is a mystery to me. How can I shift 800 RPM UNDER the rev limiter and still bend valves? Bill P. |
   |
 
|
| sww914 |
Oct 12 2006, 11:19 PM
Post
#22
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,439 Joined: 4-June 06 Member No.: 6,146 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Oct 12 2006, 06:03 PM) QUOTE I dont know how else the valves would have bent unless a piston or 3 came apart and hit the valves. Missed shift =mechanical overrev= bent exhaust valves = MONEY |
|
|
|
| J P Stein |
Oct 13 2006, 12:36 PM
Post
#23
|
|
Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Me thinks that some broken rings/ring lands is about as lucky as you're gonna get....but I've been wrong before and hope I am today.
|
|
|
|
| nine14cats |
Oct 13 2006, 12:45 PM
Post
#24
|
|
Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Oct 13 2006, 11:36 AM) Me thinks that some broken rings/ring lands is about as lucky as you're gonna get....but I've been wrong before and hope I am today. You are right JP. My best case prayer is that it's just that and not destruction inside there...we will see this weekend. Bill P. |
|
|
|
| Randal |
Oct 13 2006, 08:20 PM
Post
#25
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
QUOTE(nine14cats @ Oct 13 2006, 11:45 AM) QUOTE(J P Stein @ Oct 13 2006, 11:36 AM) Me thinks that some broken rings/ring lands is about as lucky as you're gonna get....but I've been wrong before and hope I am today. You are right JP. My best case prayer is that it's just that and not destruction inside there...we will see this weekend. Bill P. I've heard the retaining clips (rings) on the valves can fail, but it sure seems to be something that has to do with the distributor failure (first). |
|
|
|
| nine14cats |
Oct 14 2006, 07:27 PM
Post
#26
|
|
Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Found the problem on the 3.6. It looks like the chain of events went like this:
1. Timing belt breaks on dual distributor. Random arcing and sparking. 2. Pre-detonation in cylinders. Cylinders 4 and 5 are the worst. They have bits blown out of them at the lip. NO BENT VALVES. No metal bits anywhere. Heads look good but have scoring by 4 and 5. DWD hits. While we're in there we'll send both banks to Ted at German Precision on Monday for clean up. I will need 2 new cylinders. We will re-ring the motor. And we need to fix the disty. It appear that the secondary shaft is wacked. It does not spin true. We will fix this as well. Also, we found that this 3.6 DOES NOT have pins on the keyway. Pressure fit only. Timing looked okay, so that wasn't the issue. But there is a hole and provision for a pin already machined. WTF? Why did Porsche not pin the keyways on the camshalfts? We will pin them. The motor will be rebuilt and back in Fritz in 3 to 4 weeks. Fritz will live again.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Here's a few pics. Bill P. Attached image(s) 
|
|
|
|
| nine14cats |
Oct 14 2006, 07:28 PM
Post
#27
|
|
Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Side view....
Attached image(s) 
|
|
|
|
| Trekkor |
Oct 14 2006, 08:20 PM
Post
#28
|
|
I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
Doesn't sound so bad afterall ( $$$ )
Good news, Bill. KT |
|
|
|
| J P Stein |
Oct 14 2006, 08:44 PM
Post
#29
|
|
Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Well, well.......I don't know much about the 3.6L destruction cycle
but it looks like a total savings of 2 pistons .....not to mention not having to clean shittage out of the botom end. A gud thing....course, I ain't paying for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
|
|
|
| sixnotfour |
Oct 14 2006, 09:02 PM
Post
#30
|
|
914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,419 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
|
QUOTE Leakdown shows cylinders 4 and 5 have 100% leakage. You can hear the air rushing past the exhaust valves! In a word....fuck... (Sorry for the language, I'm a little sad and more than a bit frustrated). It would appear that I either have bent valves in cylinders 4 and 5 or broken rings and / or pistons. QUOTE Doesn't sound so bad afterall ( $$$ ) Good news, Bill. |
|
|
|
| KenH |
Oct 14 2006, 11:59 PM
Post
#31
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 680 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Gilroy, CA Member No.: 156 |
You might want to pass what you found by Jerry W.
"It appear that the secondary shaft is wacked. It does not spin true." How would that happen??? Might have Ted check the crank to be sure it is not bent. Ken |
|
|
|
| nine14cats |
Oct 15 2006, 12:24 AM
Post
#32
|
|
Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(KenH @ Oct 14 2006, 10:59 PM) You might want to pass what you found by Jerry W. "It appear that the secondary shaft is wacked. It does not spin true." How would that happen??? Might have Ted check the crank to be sure it is not bent. Ken Hi Ken, The secondary disty is not wobbly, but is "sticky" compared to the primary. With a broken belt, you would think it would spin freely. We still have to pull the distributor apart. I wasn't planning on pulling aprt the bottom end. Bill P. |
|
|
|
| Mueller |
Oct 15 2006, 12:27 AM
Post
#33
|
|
914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
|
1st thing I did when I got my 3.6 was replace that $10 belt inside the distributor...car only had 70K miles on it and the belt broke when I was replacing it.....scary...
|
|
|
|
| KenH |
Oct 15 2006, 12:36 AM
Post
#34
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 680 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Gilroy, CA Member No.: 156 |
OK - the shaft I thought you were talking about was the chain/oil pump shaft.
I would still talk to Jerry about it. Ken |
|
|
|
| nine14cats |
Oct 15 2006, 01:42 AM
Post
#35
|
|
Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Mike,
The belt will now be part of an annual maintenance schedule. It looks like the belt got brittle from heat and elements? Strange but true. This motor had 38K miles on it when I bought it from the wrecking yard. Ken, I guess it wouldn't hurt to talk with Jerry. He's only 5 minutes from my house. Bill P. |
|
|
|
| Mueller |
Oct 15 2006, 09:25 AM
Post
#36
|
|
914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
|
Bill,
Here are a few links about the belt failure, damage looks just like yours.... belt failure 3.6 dizzy belt issues a little more reading If I can find my CD, I'll burn you a copy which has directions and pictures on the replacing the belt. Took me a couple of hours start to finish |
|
|
|
| KenH |
Oct 15 2006, 09:26 AM
Post
#37
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 680 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Gilroy, CA Member No.: 156 |
I do not know of anybody that knows more than Jerry about "blown" motors - and he may have suggestions about what else to check before you put it back together.
Good Luck, Ken |
|
|
|
| Randal |
Oct 15 2006, 10:06 AM
Post
#38
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 15 2006, 08:25 AM) Bill, Here are a few links about the belt failure, damage looks just like yours.... belt failure 3.6 dizzy belt issues a little more reading If I can find my CD, I'll burn you a copy which has directions and pictures on the replacing the belt. Took me a couple of hours start to finish Bill, Did your distributor have a "vent kit" installed, as outlined in Mike's documenation above? Any way to modify the assembly to get rid of the belt? |
|
|
|
| nine14cats |
Oct 15 2006, 11:35 AM
Post
#39
|
|
Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the links. Wow...looks just like my motor, but at least mine isn't as severe as the heads look like they will do okay. But I will need 2 cylinders. The motor problem in the link was probably from several hours of running versus mine blowing down the straight at Thunderhill. Bill P. |
|
|
|
| nine14cats |
Oct 15 2006, 11:49 AM
Post
#40
|
|
Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Randal @ Oct 15 2006, 09:06 AM) QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 15 2006, 08:25 AM) Bill, Here are a few links about the belt failure, damage looks just like yours.... belt failure 3.6 dizzy belt issues a little more reading If I can find my CD, I'll burn you a copy which has directions and pictures on the replacing the belt. Took me a couple of hours start to finish Bill, Did your distributor have a "vent kit" installed, as outlined in Mike's documenation above? Any way to modify the assembly to get rid of the belt? Hi Randal, My 3.6 came with a vent kit already on it. From what I understand the 964 motors did not have the venting until close to the end of their model run. The 993's have the venting provision. The venting hose on my motor is new, having been replaced by JWE. I looked through my receipts and I do not see a line item for a new disty drive belt. I haven't looked through all of them yet, but this stupid $10 part looks to be the culprit. Bill P. |
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 4th May 2024 - 04:39 AM |
Invision Power Board
v9.1.4 © 2024 IPS, Inc.