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> Won't start, Need you sage advice
Michael J
post Oct 14 2006, 11:05 PM
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I have a '73 D Jet 2 liter. It is a new engine in my '72 and has been starting and running OK since I installed it 3 months ago. I drove it up to the Puget Sound Tuesday dinner and all worked well. I drove it to work Thursday and it started OK but for the first couple of minutes it would just cut out - like it was running out of gas. Coasting in gear it would finally start and once it was warm there was no problem running or starting.

Today it has got worse. It turns over and as soon as it starts it will die. Sometimes it will run for 2 or 3 seconds and then die.

I read many of the "won't start" archive posts and have some things to check in the morning.

Any thoughts? It sounds like a fuel issue but I will check the CHT connection and ground connections in general. I will check the relay board. The car is tuned well so that should be ruled out.

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swl
post Oct 15 2006, 07:08 AM
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woah - deja vue all over again

check out rockinoldschools thread from this week

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...won't+start
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JoeSharp
post Oct 15 2006, 08:13 AM
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QUOTE(swl @ Oct 15 2006, 06:08 AM) *

woah - deja vue all over again

check out rockinoldschools thread from this week

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?show...won't+start

MIke did you read the other thread. You need to have a friend come over for the 914 D-Jet Black Magic to work. They don't know what they fixed and can't tell you how or why. I went to carbs on anything that has to work.
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DNHunt
post Oct 15 2006, 08:25 AM
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Check for fuel supply first, Mike. Is the fuel pump running, can you hear it? If not check the relay and swap it out. If you can, check the fuel pressure. If it is inadequate (~ 30 psi) check the fuel filter. If you have adequate fuel, smell up the exhaust. Can you smell unburnt fuel? Pull the plugs are they fouled with fuel?. If yes check the cht and check for spark. Make sure you have adequate fuel and spark. Get the basics first.

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Bleyseng
post Oct 15 2006, 09:11 AM
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loose wire, bad grounds causing intermittent fuel/spark....figger out which one it is first.

Then order more unobtainium to replace what you are missing.


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Michael J
post Oct 15 2006, 10:15 AM
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[quote]check out rockinoldschools thread from this week
[quote]

Ya I read that thread as it developed and thought how frustrating it would be to not have a clue what the problem might be. Well Crap - now I know first hand.

Here is more info.
The engine is generally in good condition
The engine has new points (not trigger points), cap, rotor, condenser, coil, plugs.
Fresh tuneup
All grounds are tight
The CHT connection is tight and insulated
All vacum hoses are in place and tight
The fuel pump cycles up correctly and the squirt test shows fuel

I am going to town to get a fuel pressure gauge today

I swapped the relays around to be sure I didn't have one going bad.

Since it seems to do this when it is cold I am going to warm up the engine compartment to see if that makes a difference. might have some electrical that is intermitant due to temp.

And then if it doesn't start I'm going to push it of a cliff. Or break down and buy carbs. Or tow it to the shop and pay an arm and a leg to have someone else fix it.
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Joe Bob
post Oct 15 2006, 10:17 AM
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Fuel filter....
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Michael J
post Oct 15 2006, 10:22 AM
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Oh ya I forgot the fuel filter is about 6 months old but if there is any crud in the tank it might be clogged so it is on my parts list for today. Thanks
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Bleyseng
post Oct 15 2006, 10:34 AM
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I also have a janbo Djet tester available to loan you.
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swl
post Oct 15 2006, 12:08 PM
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plugs wet?
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rhodyguy
post Oct 15 2006, 05:02 PM
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start at the filter. potencial of the tank screen being plugged? prob something john has not checked either. hopefully the tank is not full of fuel for either of you. how much fuel tank *cleaning* do the new fuels do?

k
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Michael J
post Oct 15 2006, 07:31 PM
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Well I put a new fuel filter in and no change. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

So each time I try to start it it will either run for a second or two and then just cut out. Sometimes it will run for 5 to 10 seconds and then just cuts out. No sputering - just quits. Even if I pump the peddle it just quits.

Then it gets more interesting.
As I keep trying to get it to stay running after about 10 times of restarting it it starts to warm up a bit and then all of a sudden it's running. It sputters a little and as it warms up more it finally runs as it should. I can shut it off and it starts up instantly and runs fine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

So here is a question. Years ago (high school) I had a 55 chevy and it wouldn't start when cold. My dad would push the car with his and as the moter turned over and warmed up it finally popped and sputtered and finally started and ran fine. This problem finally turned out to be a bad condenser on the dizzy. What's the chance this is a similar problem - the Condenser????
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Joe Bob
post Oct 15 2006, 07:33 PM
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Have you changed out the fuel?
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sportlicherFahrer
post Oct 16 2006, 07:37 PM
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Kinda strange with your car there. The same thing happened on John's car. We just looked at everything and eventually it started sputtering and then ran rough, and then ran fine! The last thing I did was clean up the TPS contacts, but I dont think that was it. And the running rough part was due to a bad connection on the #1 injector and bad cap/rotor/wires.
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So.Cal.914
post Oct 16 2006, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE(Joe Sharp @ Oct 15 2006, 07:13 AM) *

They don't know what they fixed and can't tell you how or why. I went to carbs on anything that has to work.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe



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Michael J
post Oct 17 2006, 06:14 AM
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QUOTE(sportlicherFahrer @ Oct 16 2006, 06:37 PM) *

Kinda strange with your car there. The same thing happened on John's car. We just looked at everything and eventually it started sputtering and then ran rough, and then ran fine! The last thing I did was clean up the TPS contacts, but I dont think that was it. And the running rough part was due to a bad connection on the #1 injector and bad cap/rotor/wires.


Send me your garage fairies. Last night after going over everything again it started and ran fine for about a minute and then just quit. I'm getting closer to pushing off that cliff. The fuel pump cycles every time the key goes on but without it running and without a fuel pressure gauge I'm not sure if the pump is OK or not. I think i'll haul it to the shop and let someone else find the gremlins.
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SGB
post Oct 17 2006, 07:33 AM
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Have you pulled a spark plug? Do you smell gas when it won't start? I think it is electrical because of the way you describe the engine stopping. Coil behaviour gets weird with temperature variation too. I think you should re-install all those ignition components that are new. Look carefully at the joint of the wire to the spade connectors to the coil, too.
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Bleyseng
post Oct 17 2006, 09:05 AM
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I would look at if its flooding when having the problem or not first. Could be CHT grounding problem if its flooding.

If its not flooding, then its a spark issue.

look at the plugs when its doing this..
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Aaron Cox
post Oct 17 2006, 09:13 AM
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it sounds like a spark issue....
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