charcoal canisters....when? Options

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

The pics on the "nailed" concours forum show two 1970 front trunks. One car has a charcoal canister, the other does not. On the "main" forum, Dave Darling states that the canisters were installed in 1970. I'm thinking that was a California requirement, or was that yet another "running change" that the factory did?

[Pat Garvey]

The pics on the "nailed" concours forum show two 1970 front trunks. One car has a charcoal canister, the other does not. On the "main" forum, Dave Darling states that the canisters were installed in 1970. I'm thinking that was a California requirement, or was that yet another "running change" that the factory did?

Nope - required by US on all early(at least) 4's & 6's - in the front trunk. They did move to the engine compartment later on. My recollection is that is was on all 914 US cars, regardless of placement.

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Don't have one, never did........

[davep]

Where does that vapor tank around the filler vent to then? It seems strange it would have that tank and not a complete system.

[Pat Garvey]

Don't have one, never did........

Never did while you owned the car!

Mandatory for US importation! Where are the gasses venting to from the tank? Just because you've never had one since you owned the car does not mean it shouldn't be/was there in the beginning.

Was it a Euro delivery?

Does that explain the funky Euro front plate?

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Dave,
There is no tank around the filler neck. The hose off the "skirt" around the fuel filler neck goes straight down beside the gas tank and vents below the car.

Pat,
Car never had a tethered footrest. Did not come w/factory installed fog lights even though it came w/the appearance group(leather s/w, chrome bumpers, vinyl roll bar). There is absolutely no evidence that a canister was ever installed in the front trunk(no brackets, scuff marks, loose hose(s). Remember, as an early car, my rear trunk bears little resemblence to (even) later MY 1970s.

[Pat Garvey]

Dave,
There is no tank around the filler neck. The hose off the "skirt" around the fuel filler neck goes straight down beside the gas tank and vents below the car.

Pat,
Car never had a tethered footrest. Did not come w/factory installed fog lights even though it came w/the appearance group(leather s/w, chrome bumpers, vinyl roll bar). There is absolutely no evidence that a canister was ever installed in the front trunk(no brackets, scuff marks, loose hose(s). Remember, as an early car, my rear trunk bears little resemblence to (even) later MY 1970s.

Paul, send me this photo, because I think I can see the holes for the mounting bracket for the canister - just need to blow it up. We'll get the bottom of this - don't want to be unoriginal do we? The canisters are readilly available on Ebay, by the way.

BTW, leather was never an option on 4 cylinder 914's.

Also BTW, I can remove my canister with no evidence that it was ever there.

Trying to help here - don't get your dander up.

Send me the pic, please.
Pat

[sixerdon]

OK guys, I'm jumping in on this one. I have to side with Paul on his early Jan '70 car. I also have a Jan '70 car, but it's a six. Also canary yellow. My car was sold to the first owner in Lawrence, MA. It does not have the charcoal filter. Never did. It IS an American import.
To answer DaveP's question, the small hose that would have vented into the filter, vents instead to a "Y" fitting on the large overflow drain line on the opposite side of the expansion tank. My other six, (March '70) has the full charcoal set up so I can compare the differences. I can assure you all, my cars are original in this matter.
Paul, check the inner fender bulkhead under where the antenna would go to see if you have to holes. These holes would be for the 2 plastic lines going into the fender well and dropping to pass through and under the rear of the well wall. ie, you should have 4 holes in your fender well if your car has the filter. If you don't understand me, then look at a later car that does have it.
Pat, if you want to help Paul achieve correctness in his restoration, keep an open mind with these early variations.

Don

[JeffBowlsby]

So what I don't understand is, why would a car have the expansion tank...without the rest of the emissions system for the vapors? The expansion tank would not be hooked up to anything and fuel could just run out to the ground? The diagrams below came from a 73 emissions brochure.

[Jasfsmith]

[Nope - required by US on all early(at least) 4's & 6's - in the front trunk. They did move to the engine compartment later on. My recollection is that is was on all 914 US cars, regardless of placement.

Pat:

My '70 914-4 does not have a charcoal canister, but does have the expansion tank around the fill spout.

The '70 914-6 (Euro) does not have either.

[mskala]

My -6 is early, it does not have charcoal canister. No indication it was ever there.

[davep]

Okay, I accept that a charcoal canister was not installed on the NA models until sometime into the 1970 MY and perhaps near the end of production for the 1970 MY. All we have to do is establish the beginning of the period of use. It would appear that the NA models had the expansion tank from near the beginning if not the start of production. I love to learn new details.

[Pat Garvey]

Well, I've been digging into everything I have for reference material. 914 Factory manual, as well as "others" shed no light on this. "Doc" Johnson's tome said it was mandatory for US importation(The canister, that is - seems this is another error in that reference book). Finally went to my very early 914 parts manual and "eureka"! Found the answer, and I am apparently incorrect! This is hard! I was wrong. I apologize to Paul and this Forum (Oh man, this hurts!).

There WAS an earlt setup that included the expansion tank, with the drivers' side vent routed back to the tank overflow tube via a T or Y fitting. Appears that there was also a version where the expansion vent was simply plugged! For the lfe of me, I still can't figure out why the expansion tank was even utilized on these cars, but so be it - planning for the future?

Now, after my "mea culpas", when did this feature end?

Need to hear from 1970 owners of original 914's. What is your VIN if you do NOT have the cannister & your VIN if you do have it. Not that it's earthshattering, but I'd like to know when this STOPPED.

Paul - I apologize. You may have been correct. And I was definitely incorrect.

Wow. There's not end to these early cars!!!!!!!! But I love it!

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Dave,
appearance group(leather s/w, chrome bumpers, vinyl roll bar)

Pat, leather s/w (steering wheel).

All,
No expansion tank, no filter, just an "overflow" line draining the fuel filler tray.

[BS Chairman]

Dave,
appearance group(leather s/w, chrome bumpers, vinyl roll bar)

Pat, leather s/w (steering wheel).

All,
No expansion tank, no filter, just an "overflow" line draining the fuel filler tray.

Guys, my 1970 -6 Vin 1688 also has no filter and there are no holes anywhere. Just and overflow line with a Y which ends under body. B/D 4/70.
Gary

[JeffBowlsby]

No expansion tank

This is the expansion tank, right?

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) 30 years I've been under that hood........is that what that is? Duh!

[sixerdon]

Dave,
appearance group(leather s/w, chrome bumpers, vinyl roll bar)

Pat, leather s/w (steering wheel).

All,
No expansion tank, no filter, just an "overflow" line draining the fuel filler tray.

Guys, my 1970 -6 Vin 1688 also has no filter and there are no holes anywhere. Just and overflow line with a Y which ends under body. B/D 4/70.
Gary

That's very interesting Gary. Now get this. My other six is Vin 0876 w/ a B/D of 3/70. It DOES have the filter. However, it was sold in Reno, NV for the CA market.
My theory is only the CA cars got the filters. (at least for the sixes) So what state was yours sold in? Would like to hear more.
Now we need other sixes & fours to confirm my theory. Remember too, that CA had the highest importation of 914's of all types. But because the sixes were hard to sell everywhere, they could have moved them from dealer to dealer until they sold out so long as CA got the 914 with all the emissions requirements.
Anyone care to add to this?

Don

[Pat Garvey]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) 30 years I've been under that hood........is that what that is? Duh!

Paul - Chill!

Remember, the folks that visit this Furum are not all experts. Not sure of Jeff's intent, but I'd bet is was just to be certain that we're all on the same page. No need for vitreol. Besides, I think Jeff probably knows what he's talking about.

OK, with that in mind, as well as my mea culpa from yesterday (for which I received NO thanks), here's my suggestion. Let's find the owners who DO have a full fuel evap system, if any from the 1970 MY cars. Let's try to determine when this first showed up.

I'll scan & post the page from the early factory parts manual that shows the "before evap system". I use that term because all the system does is vent vapors to the street - I fact, it's only purpose is to do just that - dump it on the street. Porsche MUST have had something in the planning stage, or why put it on there? Amazing how times have changes!

Let's keep it peaceful, please.

[Crazyhippy]

my 70 has the canister... vin 4702909639