New tranny option: Case painting wiht rebuild, Any interest? Options

[scotty b]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

WHY?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

WHY NOT?

[Dr Evil]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

WHY?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

WHY NOT?

HA! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Took ya long enough to object (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[scotty b]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shocked[1].gif) I really like the way the F-ers are synchronized (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[Dr Evil]

Twerling, twerling, mocking, mocking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

[Leo Imperial]

This sounds good, but I wouldn't want to lose points at the next concourse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Leo Imperial]

Put me in for flat black (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[alpha434]

Ha! You guys are funny. Especially Andrew. "Weaken the case" HA!


Anyway... All insecurities aside, there is one pro and on con.

+ The case looks nice
- Heat retainment

And whoever asked about how much heat the tranny makes... We read 375 right at the diff after a race in a 911.

EDIT: And VW nor Porsche ever applied any coating to their engines for fear of heat retainment.

[alpha434]

And I think the tranny would look *best* if all the high points were left shiny. Or even painted a different color, like neon green. Remember battlezone?

[T H O M A S]

powder coated sparkel silver (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[PRS914-6]

Well, it's just my opinion but I would never heat a precision magnesium part to 400+ degrees for looks only. Why run the risk of warpage? That's WAY more heat than they run on the road. I would not heat a precision part to more than it sees in normal service. Just my policy though.

I coated mine with a light coat of clear engine enamel to seal the pits and corrosion and to make it easier to clean.

[Andyrew]

Ha! You guys are funny. Especially Andrew. "Weaken the case" HA!


Anyway... All insecurities aside, there is one pro and on con.

+ The case looks nice
- Heat retainment

And whoever asked about how much heat the tranny makes... We read 375 right at the diff after a race in a 911.

EDIT: And VW nor Porsche ever applied any coating to their engines for fear of heat retainment.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/flipa.gif)

Your worrying about all of 90lbs of tq on a trani that holds 300lbs of tq..

Im struggling to detune a 500lb tq engine to 400lbs of tq, and retain the drivablity, powerband, and higher rpms im looking for.. with true slicks, on the track.. on a trani that cant take more than 400lbs of tq.. on the street. on stock tires.

Shut up. I have the right to worry about the little things.


heres a quote.

"The case did change shape a little, but I doubt it is enough to matter. The bearing races in the case went from "snug" to "mega tight" (this is a good thing) and the material where the studs are mounted for the side cover bulged out at each stud just enough for the side cover to not fit without some filing"

[Dr Evil]

Well there sure is a lot of supposition going on. Looks like it is time for the transmission myth busters to take action. Basically, Bondo's oven was not of the quality that we will use so the data point is suggestive, but not definitive. If what he experienced were to happen in any way in a set up that Scott would use then we would not do it. Yes, we have cases to experiment with. Yes, we will make sure that no customers tranny gets warped. Everyone has the right to expect that their tranny not get warped when it is in for service (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
I trust Scotty's opinion when it comes to the feasability of this endeavor because he is a professional and shares my views on quality of service and product.

Other myths to be or that have been busted:

"Heating your case can cause a class delta fire because Mg burns!" -- peniding further investigation where I will take a piece of case and try, very hard, to lite it up under cercumstances that would not normally exist during heating a case to remove a plug.

"Easy-Off oven cleaner will etch your case and ruin it!" -- tested, not entirely true! I soaked an intermediate plate for over 24hrs in Easy-Off. Whilke it did etch the metal ever so slightly (mind you this is WAYYYYY longer than you would be exposing your tranny to for cleaning) the amount would not be significant unless you treated the mating surfaces in such a way.

"Powder coating will warp your case!" --- Pending, stay tuned.

[914nerd]

"Heating your case can cause a class delta fire because Mg burns!"
Actually, while magnesium does burn, it will not burn in a large chunk like the case of a tranny
It is incredibly difficult to set a chunk of magnesium on fire and should not be a real issue in this situation
The only real concern with magnesium is in its powdered form
But, I doubt any of these cases will be powedered
Just my $.02

[Andyrew]

Mike.. I tried.. the magnesium isnt pure enough.... Sigh..

heheheh

PS.. I would LOVE to paint my trani, but you need some good before and after numbers of the tolerances before I say "do it" on my trani.

Andrew

[KevinP]

I think thats a great idea. 100 bucks for the powdercoat job is a fair price.
If you don't know anything about powdercoating. 400 to 425 F for 20 to 25 min will not hurt your tranny housing. As for holding in extra heat- again, not hot enough to make a damaging difference. This will also not create any damage to the metal. When powdercoating any pores type casting you need to make sure its as clean as possible but i know the guys have that covered.

There alot of great colors available and I did mine in Dupont Teflon green- "weird", I know but I had it left over from another job.

Great idea....
KP

[dmenche914]

Looks like a mix of opinions, one guys says his case did change, another says no problem (but didn't say he tried it) it may come down to how even the heat is, a factor of the oven design, and temp ramp rates. metal can be warped by uneven heating that is a well know fact (the concept of heat shrinking body panels for example) control of the heat will be important. It is well established that the trany case diminsions are important for a long life, and smooth running tranny.
so if the tranny case can make it thru the process is the first question. the next question is if it is desireable from a heat standpoint.

there is info on paint,a dn engine cases, and cylinder outer surfaces. generally a thin flat black is considered best. this radiates heat best, and the thin coat does not over insulate.

question to askt eh powder coater person is how thick is the finished film? How does that compare to thin coat of paint?

I had a paper on cylinder walls. VW guy did an engineering paper on heat transfer with different paint coatings (and bare, and greasy dirty) using thermal couples, to measure heat loss rate. bare and thin flat black won as the best heat rejecting coatings.

then you need to ask, does it matter in your application? (ie street driven stock car, verses high HP track car)

once these are answered, it will be an easy choice!

it is good that we proceed with caution,a nd wait until the facts are known. i am sure the guys proposing this coating service will cover this, it appears they are willing to run tests, this is a good sign. i like responsible vendors. Amyone willing to take the time to reseach this, and run tests is probably going to make sure it is a quality product.

keep us all informed on you results, this is very interesting.

thanks

[T H O M A S]

the company how did mine sad they do it all the time with no problems,put the trans together w/o the internals ,2 screws on the tailcone and 2 screws on the sideplate,my cost was $150.00 but it is powder coated two times ,silver and clear on top

[Dr Evil]

That makes a lot of sense, Thomas. The price is right too. Thanks for the input.

[scotty b]

Just wanted to let you guys know I haven't forgotten about this. I have just been swamped between werk and trying to repair my parents roof. I have a donor tranny (914) that I tore down this after noon and will try to get it cleaned up by mid-next week. I got a new box of powder so that is ready and will TRY to get this thing coated after Thanksgiving! BTW Dr. you may have another tranny rebuild after the first of the year. You've got PM !!

[John]

I have my doubts that the cure cycle (approx 400 deg. F for 30 minutes) will really warp the transmission much. (but you would have to do some very precise measuring to know for sure)

I know of a manufacturer of Stern Drives that are routinely E-coated AND powder coated (apparently with little or no ill effects). They do take into account the mil thickness of the e-coat for bearing races, but apparently the bearing bores stay true enough in their aluminum castings.

I would still be fearing heat retention. I think a very thin coating (perhaps black or silver) may be a better option if you must paint the trans for some reason.


just my $0.02