Trim Levels, All years, but I'll bet the early years are unique! Options

[Pat Garvey]

I have a 71 that has leather seat inserts? They seem original, is this possible?

Nope! Leather was NEVER an option on fours!

I question this quick reply as everything was leather, even the back pad??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
I checked the VIN incase it was supposed to be a -6 (hoping) but it's not???
Wish I could afford to replace the leather.

If it's truely leather (does it pass the sniff test?), the interior was either redone by a PO to leather, or it's an anomoly that would show on your COA.
Pat

[Tom_T]

Fitment for the 1973 MY 914-2.0 (marketed as the "914 S" in the USA)

Okay, here's Porsche's North American sales ad from Dec. 72, for the "new" 1973 MY "914S" - aka 914-2.0 - which lists both the Appearance & Performance Groups' options being included on the 914S' base price:

December 1972 Porsche USA Advertisement for the "new" 1973 MY 914S:



The same info "AG+PG included" info. appears in the Jan. 73 Motor Trend & Feb. 73 R&T road tests & accompanying charts, as well as my copy of an original Porsche 914 dealer brochure for the early-73 MY, which also still refers to it as a "914S".

From my early 1973 MY USA Porsche 914 Brochure:


> Note above that the Oil Temp Gauge in this early brochure pic shows numbers, rather than the wide red band style as used in the 9173 MY, changing to the thin red band in late 73 or 74 MY.

Early 1973 MY 2.0 Mulroney Window Sticker with N/C at all AG & PG Items:

> This is close to my early-73 914S/914-2.0 VIN 4732901954, but I don't have the one for my 914, having bought it used in Dec. 1975 as second owner.


Early 1973 MY 2.0 Mulroney Window Sticker with N/C at all AG & PG Items:



BTW - Porsche AG apparently enforced Porsche NA to drop 914S, in favor of the 914-2.0 adage between Dec. 72 & Feb. 73, because the later R&T article discusses that change. Interestingly, PAG did not force the contemporary British Porsche 914 dealer network to drop their comparable "914SC" terminology.

In actual fact - and despite the 914S reference in the Porsche NA ad, in neither case were 914 2Ls ever actually badged as either 914S or 914SC, but instead had the typical 2.0 badge we all know, with the Euro version having the 2.0 appear below the usual VW-Porsche-914 badge.

All of the Brian Long, Paternie, Brett Johnson & Dr.914 George Hussey books are consistent on the fact that only the 1973 MY 914-2.0's came "loaded" for the base price with the AG & PG options, which changed to "additional price options" in the 1974 MY.

However, "Sahara Beige" Steve Gaglione contends that later in the 1973 My (perhaps around March) that Porsche began to offer option delete packages with lesser packages, in order to mitigate the drastic price escalation from Summer 1972 to Summer 1973 caused by the DM to Dollar devaluation, resulting in a rise to almost $1000 more for the same full option fitment by the 1974 MY 2.0.

EDIT: Jeff Bowlsby's website page on windowstickers, etc. includes several "non-fully loaded" 73 914-2.0's, and at least one member on here has one from alate 73 MY build date (May, June or July 73 IIRC).

In any case, at least up through the Black 914-2.0 tested by MT & R&T (both test drove & photographed the same car), the 73 MY 2.0's were still only offered fully loaded here in the USA!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

Okay, here's Porsche's North American sales ad from Dec. 72, for the "new" 1973 MY "914S" - aka 914-2.0 - which lists both the Appearance & Performance Groups' options being included on the 914S' base price:

December 1972 Porsche USA Advertisement for the "new" 1973 MY 914S:



The same info "AG+PG included" info. appears in the Jan. 73 Motor Trend & Feb. 73 R&T road tests & accompanying charts, as well as my copy of an original Porsche 914 dealer brochure for the early-73 MY, which also still refers to it as a "914S".

From my early 1973 MY USA Porsche 914 Brochure:


> Note above that the Oil Temp Gauge in this early brochure pic shows numbers, rather than the wide red band style as used in the 9173 MY, changing to the thin red band in late 73 or 74 MY.

Early 1973 MY 2.0 Mulroney Window Sticker with N/C at all AG & PG Items:

> This is close to my early-73 914S/914-2.0 VIN 4732901954, but I don't have the one for my 914, having bought it used in Dec. 1975 as second owner.


Early 1973 MY 2.0 Mulroney Window Sticker with N/C at all AG & PG Items:



BTW - Porsche AG apparently enforced Porsche NA to drop 914S, in favor of the 914-2.0 adage between Dec. 72 & Feb. 73, because the later R&T article discusses that change. Interestingly, PAG did not force the contemporary British Porsche 914 dealer network to drop their comparable "914SC" terminology.

In actual fact - and despite the 914S reference in the Porsche NA ad, in neither case were 914 2Ls ever actually badged as either 914S or 914SC, but instead had the typical 2.0 badge we all know, with the Euro version having the 2.0 appear below the usual VW-Porsche-914 badge.

All of the Brian Long, Paternie, Brett Johnson & Dr.914 George Hussey books are consistent on the fact that only the 1973 MY 914-2.0's came "loaded" for the base price with the AG & PG options, which changed to "additional price options" in the 1974 MY.

However, "Sahara Beige" Steve Gaglione contends that later in the 1973 My (perhaps around March) that Porsche began to offer option delete packages with lesser packages, in order to mitigate the drastic price escalation from Summer 1972 to Summer 1973 caused by the DM to Dollar devaluation, resulting in a rise to almost $1000 more for the same full option fitment by the 1974 MY 2.0.

In any case, at least up through the Black 914-2.0 tested by MT & R&T (both test drove & photographed the same car), the 73 MY 2.0's were still only offered fully loaded here in the USA!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Steve is correct. When the "fully optioned" 2 liters became expensive in early-mid 73, Porsche began offering price cuts by making equipment "standards" an "optional" piece/s. That's part of the reason you'll find so many "2's" without sail panel trim, etc.

As you can see, the 914 was a work-in-progress until 1975. Sorta why we like the disparaties. So many are unique.
Pat

[Tom_T]

Steve is correct. When the "fully optioned" 2 liters became expensive in early-mid 73, Porsche began offering price cuts by making equipment "standards" an "optional" piece/s. That's part of the reason you'll find so many "2's" without sail panel trim, etc.

As you can see, the 914 was a work-in-progress until 1975. Sorta why we like the disparaties. So many are unique.
Pat

EDIT - PAT YOU CAN DELETE PART OR ALL OF THIS IF YOU FEEL APPROPRIATE. It's mostly our chit-chat about 73 2Ls.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) Yeah, but as an early-MY 73 2L built in 8/72 (while you were picking up your 72) - mine was fully loaded!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

... as I've been able to verify with the evidence on the car of the missing fog lights (wires cut behind horns), fog light dash switch (clean but empty hole in dash & facing), center console/gauges (empty mount holes with nylon speed nut clips under dash & floor in front of center cushion/storage, & harness gauge connectors at tunnel), & well, the Fuchs were on there when it left the factory! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

IRRC the DAPO/FO removed the center console for more room to cart their kids to/from school using the center seat/cushion (pre-mandatory seatbelt days ya know), then sold it to me shortly after in Dec. 75 when they had another on the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Not clear on why they "lost" the fog lights & Fuchs 2L wheels!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I was too dumb & happy just to get it back then in my 20's, that I never asked for the stuff taken out, let alone why!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

BTW - Given the price of those individual options if added to a 73 1.7's base price, it was a bargain to pay an extra grand for the 2.0 & get what was by then in CA 95/91 hp instead of 69 hp in the de-tuned 1.7!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Mine would've come out the dealer's door new at about the same $5,427.50 as shown on the 1st window sticker as a Calif smog tested car with tinted glass - plus whatever the AM/FM/8-Track, antenna & speakers added back then - perhaps $100-150 more. I paid $4,500.00 in 12/75 with 45K miles on it. IMHO, well worth the price!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I know, I know Pat - your $3995 for a 72 1.7 & still with the 79-80 hp was a bargain, but remember that they were only 76 hp de-tuned for CA & already getting a bit (more) weazy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

I know, I drove several 70-72 1.7Ls & 74 1.8Ls when I was looking & they were still about $1000 less at $3500 back then......I'm glad that I went for the gusto then & still! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

... So - was that $3995 with the App. Group & chrome wheels, radio, etc.?? - i.e.: what was the total out the door for yours in 8/72 in KY?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

[/quote]
... So - was that $3995 with the App. Group & chrome wheels, radio, etc.?? - i.e.: what was the total out the door for yours in 8/72 in KY?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
[/quote]
The final price was 4295.50, which included:
TINTED WINDSHIELD
DELUXE CARPETING
INSIDE ROOF FELT LINER
CENTER CUSHION
CHROME FRON & REAR BUMPERS
VINYL TRIM
5.5 INCH STEEL WHEELS
165 SERIES RADIALS
LEATHER WRAPPED STEERING WHEEL
FOG LIGHTS

I put the Blaupunkt Frankfort radio in myself, though never drilled the body for an antenna.
Pat

[Tom_T]

[quote name='Pat Garvey' date='Jan 16 2010, 08:05 AM' post='1262311']
[/quote]
... So - was that $3995 with the App. Group & chrome wheels, radio, etc.?? - i.e.: what was the total out the door for yours in 8/72 in KY?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
[/quote]
The final price was 4295.50, which included:
TINTED WINDSHIELD
DELUXE CARPETING
INSIDE ROOF FELT LINER
CENTER CUSHION
CHROME FRON & REAR BUMPERS
VINYL TRIM
5.5 INCH STEEL WHEELS
165 SERIES RADIALS
LEATHER WRAPPED STEERING WHEEL
FOG LIGHTS

I put the Blaupunkt Frankfort radio in myself, though never drilled the body for an antenna.
Pat
[/quote]

EDIT: PAT - ALSO OKAY TO EDIT ANY OR ALL HERE THAT YOU FEEL NOT GERMAINE TO FITMENT TOPIC.

So what did you do for an antenna? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Mine had what appears to be the factory "radio ready package" which included a Hirschmann manual locking antenna (locks closed with a "key" or screwdriver) mounted in the LF Fender (not dealer "drilled"), speakers in the boxes & ready to install the radio of choice, which the PO/FO chose a Motorola mfgd. VW4412 AM/FM/8-Track unit.

So it appears that the $1132 increase included:
Tinted Glass all around ($87 of the total - good idea it hot climates (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) )
Forged Light Alloy Wheels (Fuchs 2L in this case - vs. Steelies), mounted with
165HR15 Tires (vs 165SR15's on the 1.7s)
Center Console with Clock, OT Gauge & Voltmeter
2.0L with 95 hp vs 76 hp (or only 69 hp on Calif. 1.7s)
and for their next model year price increase! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

... that is assuming that your carpet upgrade meant the App Grp loop pile carpet & a leather shift boot (vs. stock rubber one)?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Otherwise those would be part of the "increased price goodies".

Of note regarding this topic's subject matter, starting in 73 MY the "mouse fur" roof headliner became standard equipment.

Always interesting trading info from back in the day! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

[quote name='Tom_T' date='Jan 17 2010, 12:27 AM' post='1262520']
[quote name='Pat Garvey' date='Jan 16 2010, 08:05 AM' post='1262311']
[/quote]
... So - was that $3995 with the App. Group & chrome wheels, radio, etc.?? - i.e.: what was the total out the door for yours in 8/72 in KY?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
[/quote]
The final price was 4295.50, which included:
TINTED WINDSHIELD
DELUXE CARPETING
INSIDE ROOF FELT LINER
CENTER CUSHION
CHROME FRON & REAR BUMPERS
VINYL TRIM
5.5 INCH STEEL WHEELS
165 SERIES RADIALS
LEATHER WRAPPED STEERING WHEEL
FOG LIGHTS

I put the Blaupunkt Frankfort radio in myself, though never drilled the body for an antenna.
Pat
[/quote]

So what did you do for an antenna? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Mine had what appears to be the factory "radio ready package" which included a Hirschmann manual locking antenna (locks closed with a "key" or screwdriver) mounted in the LF Fender (not dealer "drilled"), speakers in the boxes & ready to install the radio of choice, which the PO/FO chose a Motorola mfgd. VW4412 AM/FM/8-Track unit.

So it appears that the $1132 increase included:
Tinted Glass all around ($87 of the total - good idea it hot climates (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) )
Forged Light Alloy Wheels (Fuchs 2L in this case - vs. Steelies), mounted with
165HR15 Tires (vs 165SR15's on the 1.7s)
Center Console with Clock, OT Gauge & Voltmeter
2.0L with 95 hp vs 76 hp (or only 69 hp on Calif. 1.7s)
and for their next model year price increase! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

... that is assuming that your carpet upgrade meant the App Grp loop pile carpet & a leather shift boot (vs. stock rubber one)?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Otherwise those would be part of the "increased price goodies".

Of note regarding this topic's subject matter, starting in 73 MY the "mouse fur" roof headliner became standard equipment.

Always interesting trading info from back in the day! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
[/quote]
Carpet upgrade was loop pile, but leather shift boots didn't come on 1.7's.
Used a windshield mounted antenna for lotsa years, but haven't used the the radios in many years.
Speakers were included in the app grp.

Thought long & hard about the 2.0 (dealer had one at the time) but I was only making $10k/year at the time & was too much of a stretch.

[Tom_T]

EDITED - DELETE

[matt5596]

Old thread but it seemed appropriate for my question.

Is there any way to determine if my newly acquired 2 owner '71 was sold new with the App. Group or if the PO added the items?

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Old thread but it seemed appropriate for my question.

Is there any way to determine if my newly acquired 2 owner '71 was sold new with the App. Group or if the PO added the items?

One (and the most expensive) way to determine if your '71/4 had the appearance group is to request (and pay for) the CoA (Certificate of Authenticity) from Porsche.

Another, more cost effective approach is to look for evidence that the previous owners "upgraded" the car.

The wheels are probably the easiest and most likely candidates for replacement, so those are not likely to be still original to the car.

If your car has been repainted some time during its life, a previous owner may have added the vinyl on the roll bar, so again, not a real answer in determining originality.

If the bumpers are chrome, and haven't been replaced because of accident damage, the likelihood of an owner "upgrade" will be somewhat diminished because of an increasing cost factor to change to chrome from body colored paint.

Fog lights and the accompanying correct switch for them is another higher cost upgrade that a previous owner may not have been willing to pay for.

Lastly, do you have one, or two horns behind the bumper (visible behind the bumper grilles) and what kind of steering wheel is on your car? Appearance Group cars have two horns. If someone tried to add the appearance items to a car that didn't have them, the second horn might very well be overlooked. And is your steering wheel leather covered, or hard rubber? Hopefully an aftermarket wheel hasn't been fitted, and again, the cost to replace the hard rubber wheel with the leather wrapped version would seem to me to be an expense that an earlier, previous owner would not have undertaken.

I hope these "clues" can offer you some insight, and...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Paul

[Tom_T]

EDIT: PAT - THIS & MATT'S & PAUL'S POSTS ABOVE ARE ANSWERING A CURRENT QUESTION, SO OKAY TO EDIT DOWN OR DELETE AFTER A BIT WHEN MATT HAS HAD A CHANCE TO READ IT.

Old thread but it seemed appropriate for my question.

Is there any way to determine if my newly acquired 2 owner '71 was sold new with the App. Group or if the PO added the items?

Matt,

Other than the original window sticker &/or dealer sales invoice when it was first sold new (best) or COA (next best), it's actually easier to prove that the options used to be on & removed, than not on there to begin with.

Another option would be to try to contact the original owner & ask them what was on it originally when they bought it new, and if any of it were changed or added at the dealership (1.5st best).

To complicate matters further, the dealers could steal or swap just about anything from one 914 to another inside a 1/2 day or less.

A PCNA Regional Service Mgr. who used to work at a SoCal dealership, recently told me that they could completely change out & swap an interior between 2 914s side-by-side in 45 mins.! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

And then the PCNA staff doing COAs regularly misread & misinterpret/translate the option codes from the factory Kardex records (on all P-cars, worse on the older cars).

While you may get an inkling from what Paul suggests above, it would be more along the lines of confirming than proving an unknown item was there from the factory.

If you're into keeping or restoring your 71 as original, then try #1, 1.5 & 2 best above, and joining PCA will save you $20 of the $120+/- cost of the COA, plus 20% off parts & stuff at Porsche dealers, as well as the Panorama national & the local region's monthly magazines - aside from some free events.

In my case the OO/PO from whom I bought my 73 2L at 3 years old in Dec 75 - &/or the dealer - had removed the foglights/grills & dash switch (just left the open hole), center console & the 5 Fuchs 2L wheels. So I had to do the on-the-car research to find cut foglight wires, evidence of a console once being there, and the fact that early in the 73 MY ~ up to maybe Jan-Mar 73, that ALL 914-2.0's left the factory for the USA "fully loaded" with both the Appearance & Performance Groups of options & marketed here in the USA as the "914 S".

It took me several months of research, 3 tries with PCNA's COA dept. staff, and a few others to confirm what mine had on it originally, in order to guide my resto. I still need to do some forensic research like Paul discusses above, around & under the windshield trim to determine if perhaps it originally had the A-pillar/windshield frame vinyl (like used on the sails/rollbar), which they "experimented with" on the first 1000 - 2000+/- `73 914s.

Happy hunting for the answers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom T
///////

[matt5596]

EDIT: PAT - THIS & MATT'S & PAUL'S POSTS ABOVE ARE ANSWERING A CURRENT QUESTION, SO OKAY TO EDIT DOWN OR DELETE AFTER A BIT WHEN MATT HAS HAD A CHANCE TO READ IT.

Old thread but it seemed appropriate for my question.

Is there any way to determine if my newly acquired 2 owner '71 was sold new with the App. Group or if the PO added the items?

Matt,

Other than the original window sticker &/or dealer sales invoice when it was first sold new (best) or COA (next best), it's actually easier to prove that the options used to be on & removed, than not on there to begin with.

Another option would be to try to contact the original owner & ask them what was on it originally when they bought it new, and if any of it were changed or added at the dealership (1.5st best).

To complicate matters further, the dealers could steal or swap just about anything from one 914 to another inside a 1/2 day or less.

A PCNA Regional Service Mgr. who used to work at a SoCal dealership, recently told me that they could completely change out & swap an interior between 2 914s side-by-side in 45 mins.! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

And then the PCNA staff doing COAs regularly misread & misinterpret/translate the option codes from the factory Kardex records (on all P-cars, worse on the older cars).

While you may get an inkling from what Paul suggests above, it would be more along the lines of confirming than proving an unknown item was there from the factory.

If you're into keeping or restoring your 71 as original, then try #1, 1.5 & 2 best above, and joining PCA will save you $20 of the $120+/- cost of the COA, plus 20% off parts & stuff at Porsche dealers, as well as the Panorama national & the local region's monthly magazines - aside from some free events.

In my case the OO/PO from whom I bought my 73 2L at 3 years old in Dec 75 - &/or the dealer - had removed the foglights/grills & dash switch (just left the open hole), center console & the 5 Fuchs 2L wheels. So I had to do the on-the-car research to find cut foglight wires, evidence of a console once being there, and the fact that early in the 73 MY ~ up to maybe Jan-Mar 73, that ALL 914-2.0's left the factory for the USA "fully loaded" with both the Appearance & Performance Groups of options & marketed here in the USA as the "914 S".

It took me several months of research, 3 tries with PCNA's COA dept. staff, and a few others to confirm what mine had on it originally, in order to guide my resto. I still need to do some forensic research like Paul discusses above, around & under the windshield trim to determine if perhaps it originally had the A-pillar/windshield frame vinyl (like used on the sails/rollbar), which they "experimented with" on the first 1000 - 2000+/- `73 914s.

Happy hunting for the answers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom T
///////

Thank you!!