Phase II of the 914-6 race car transition starts today Options

[grantsfo]

Kicked off phase II of my small bore race car project. Dropped the car off a couple hours ago.

I bit the bullet and I'm going route of a more thorough rebuild with the shop working on my car. We found some nice new Mahle 2.4 911 S cylinders and pistons ($$$ ouch). Dang those pistons and pins are light! Completely rebuilding heads and having them drilled for twin plug crankfire ignition. Will be going with hot cam setup TBD. Running about 10.5 to 1 compression.

Should make 230 HP with one plug standard ignition and a bit more with twin plugs! This little motor should do ok in propelling my roughly 2000 lb car.

Depending on my budget I may just go with standard ignition and run one plug to start and then upgrade to crankfire with twin plugs. Engine rebuild will be finished by mid January due to Holidays.

Rebuilt 901 tranny with MSX gears will hang off the back of the motor. Thinking about a LSD, but I'm unsure that it will fit my budget now.

When the car gets home I will be gutting doors and the rest of the interior for weight savings. Shopping for a race seat.

I think my car will actually be fast enough for me to get a wing now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Randal]

Kicked off phase II of my small bore race car project. Dropped the car off a couple hours ago.

I bit the bullet and I'm going route of a more thorough rebuild with the shop working on my car. We found some nice new Mahle 2.4 911 S cylinders and pistons ($$$ ouch). Dang those pistons and pins are light! Completely rebuilding heads and having them drilled for twin plug crankfire ignition. Will be going with hot cam setup TBD. Running about 10.5 to 1 compression.

Should make 230 HP with one plug standard ignition and a bit more with twin plugs! This little motor should do ok in propelling my roughly 2000 lb car.

Depending on my budget I may just go with standard ignition and run one plug to start and then upgrade to crankfire with twin plugs. Engine rebuild will be finished by mid January due to Holidays.

Rebuilt 901 tranny with MSX gears will hang off the back of the motor. Thinking about a LSD, but I'm unsure that it will fit my budget now.

When the car gets home I will be gutting doors and the rest of the interior for weight savings. Shopping for a race seat.

I think my car will actually be fast enough for me to get a wing now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Great to hear about your start Grant. Should be fun next year!

[J P Stein]

Sounds like a good thing, but how are you gonna get 10.5 :1 compression outta 2.4L S P&Cs?

[nine14cats]

Hi Grant,

Nice to hear you finally joined the darkside!...

Trekkor....oh Trekkor.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Are they Mahle C's and JE P's? I don't remember a 10.5:1 911S combo, but I may be wrong...maybe shave the heads?

If you can afford it, get the LSD and run single plug and back off the timing to keep from blowing your motor until you can afford to get the last 10 percent out of it. With all of that power you're going to have, that car will spin those wheels like it's on ice.

40% or 80% torque bias or ZF style will all be good. FWIW, I had an 80% Guard (ZF style) LSD in my 901 and I really liked having it. Not only did it make a difference with putting the power down, it was nice when you let off the gas after high speed sections. It kept the car more controllable.

Sound fun...can't wait to see it out there next year. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

Bill P.

[grantsfo]

Sounds like a good thing, but how are you gonna get 10.5 :1 compression outta 2.4L S P&Cs?

I made a misstatement about these pistons and cylinders being for a 2.4 S. They are same bore as a 2.4 S, but they are for an earlier year 911 S motor apparently. When you put them on the longer stroke 70.4 MM crank you get more compression. Pistons need to be machined for clearance. Apparently these are fairly hard to find and allow you to make a high compression motor without shaving the heads. The cylinders are the Biral Mahles.

[nebreitling]

sounds exciting! i understand the 'budget' issue -- but i would consider lsd a priority for AX and hillclimb. otherwise, i doubt you'll ever be able to put down all of that 230 hp. With an open diff, you'll always be trying to tune your suspension around your corner-exits.

[grantsfo]

Hi Grant,

Nice to hear you finally joined the darkside!...

Trekkor....oh Trekkor.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Are they Mahle C's and JE P's? I don't remember a 10.5:1 911S combo, but I may be wrong...maybe shave the heads?

If you can afford it, get the LSD and run single plug and back off the timing to keep from blowing your motor until you can afford to get the last 10 percent out of it. With all of that power you're going to have, that car will spin those wheels like it's on ice.

40% or 80% torque bias or ZF style will all be good. FWIW, I had an 80% Guard (ZF style) LSD in my 901 and I really liked having it. Not only did it make a difference with putting the power down, it was nice when you let off the gas after high speed sections. It kept the car more controllable.

Sound fun...can't wait to see it out there next year. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

Bill P.

Yes LSD is top on my list if I can afford it. Anyone know where I might be able to find a deal on one? ...and yes the darkside has prevailed. I was almost to the point of selling the car and then I found myself hauling it up to Gary for complete engine rebuild etc.

[nine14cats]

Hi Grant,

Nice to hear you finally joined the darkside!...

Trekkor....oh Trekkor.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Are they Mahle C's and JE P's? I don't remember a 10.5:1 911S combo, but I may be wrong...maybe shave the heads?

If you can afford it, get the LSD and run single plug and back off the timing to keep from blowing your motor until you can afford to get the last 10 percent out of it. With all of that power you're going to have, that car will spin those wheels like it's on ice.

40% or 80% torque bias or ZF style will all be good. FWIW, I had an 80% Guard (ZF style) LSD in my 901 and I really liked having it. Not only did it make a difference with putting the power down, it was nice when you let off the gas after high speed sections. It kept the car more controllable.

Sound fun...can't wait to see it out there next year. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

Bill P.

Yes LSD is top on my list if I can afford it. Anyone know where I might be able to find a deal on one? ...and yes the darkside has prevailed. I was almost to the point of selling the car and then I found myself hauling it up to Gary for complete engine rebuild etc.

It's tough to give up on the 914 "dream". Why else is Fritz gone and The Beast™ still here?..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

914's have a character....sometimes a mutha of a character...but character nevertheless.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Bill P.

[J P Stein]

2.2L S P&Cs will do the trick....and then some. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[brant]

I still predict W2W in your future.
maybe you don't know it yet, but I'm guessing within 24 months you'll see the light...

especially after you drop another 17K into your um... what is it?

"budget $4,000 cheap -6 conversion?"



only my opinion... but you may want to go with the twin plug right from the start.
under track type conditions with 10.5:1 compression your going to have to use race gas. The twin plug is going to provide a margin of safety to a very expensive lump. After all of the outlay for the new motor, safety and insurance is a good thing.


my new quote

even if they don't start expensive, they ultimately end up that way
b

[anthony]

Grant, don't you need to plan for twin plug from the start? I thought the only reason for twin plugging was to run higher compression.

[Randal]

sounds exciting! i understand the 'budget' issue -- but i would consider lsd a priority for AX and hillclimb. otherwise, i doubt you'll ever be able to put down all of that 230 hp. With an open diff, you'll always be trying to tune your suspension around your corner-exits.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Just check out the turn 7 exit by the "champ" and you see why. Probably cost Nathan 2 or 3 seconds at Hoopa.

Oh, the Hoopa Hillclimb videos.

[sixnotfour]

Durasil

or Duracell

Mahle 2.2 S--old production cyl. were Biral -iron bore alum fins,
new production versions - nikasil bore alum fins
For the record;
Nikasil
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nikasil is a trademarked electrodeposited oleophilic nickel matrix silicon carbide coating for engine components, mainly piston engine cylinder liners. It was introduced by Mahle 1967, initially developed to allow rotary engine pistons to work directly against the aluminum housing. This coating allowed aluminium cylinders and pistons to work directly against each other with low wear and friction. Unlike other methods, including cast iron cylinder liners, Nikasil allowed very large cylinder bores with tight tolerances and thus allowed existing engine designs to be expanded easily, the aluminium cylinders also gave a much better heat conductivity than cast iron liners which is an important factor for a high output engine.

Porsche started using this on the 1970 917 race car, and later on the 1973 911 RS. Porsche also used it on production cars, but for a short time switched to Alusil due to cost savings for their base 911. Nikasil cylinders were always used for the 911 turbo and RS models. Nikasil coated aluminum cylinders allowed Porsche to build air-cooled engines that had the highest specific output of any engine of their time. Nikasil is still used in today's 911s with great success.

[ConeDodger]

Hi Grant,

Nice to hear you finally joined the darkside!...

Trekkor....oh Trekkor.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Are they Mahle C's and JE P's? I don't remember a 10.5:1 911S combo, but I may be wrong...maybe shave the heads?

If you can afford it, get the LSD and run single plug and back off the timing to keep from blowing your motor until you can afford to get the last 10 percent out of it. With all of that power you're going to have, that car will spin those wheels like it's on ice.

40% or 80% torque bias or ZF style will all be good. FWIW, I had an 80% Guard (ZF style) LSD in my 901 and I really liked having it. Not only did it make a difference with putting the power down, it was nice when you let off the gas after high speed sections. It kept the car more controllable.

Sound fun...can't wait to see it out there next year. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

Bill P.

Yes LSD is top on my list if I can afford it. Anyone know where I might be able to find a deal on one? ...and yes the darkside has prevailed. I was almost to the point of selling the car and then I found myself hauling it up to Gary for complete engine rebuild etc.

Gary??? As in Renntech Gary? You were in town and you didn't call or write??? Oh the pain!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Rob

[DanT]

Gary as in Gary Dielacher of GD racing. I presume (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Since he performed stage I. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

[Trekkor]

Sounds really good.

i may have to step up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I desire the 220hp 2.0 LeMans SIX.


KT

[914forme]

sounds exciting! i understand the 'budget' issue -- but i would consider lsd a priority for AX and hillclimb. otherwise, i doubt you'll ever be able to put down all of that 230 hp. With an open diff, you'll always be trying to tune your suspension around your corner-exits.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I have 110hp and can't keep it from spinning on corner exits. The LSD will be the biggest change you make. The power means nothing if you can't hook it up. And to hook it up correctly you will need a LSD. YMMV, but it is to me the best upgrade you could have made. Find the dollars, save the weight or the seats or the wing, and get it done correctly!! But it is your dollars, spend them wisely.

[J P Stein]

I have 110hp and can't keep it from spinning on corner exits. The LSD will be the biggest change you make.

Apparently you don't read the suspension set-up comentaries that go on here.
It's quite easy to keep the inside rear from unloading.....it may not fit your suspension philosopy, nor that of others here, but that's life.

[grantsfo]

I have 110hp and can't keep it from spinning on corner exits. The LSD will be the biggest change you make.

Apparently you don't read the suspension set-up comentaries that go on here.
It's quite easy to keep the inside rear from unloading.....it may not fit your suspension philosopy, nor that of others here, but that's life.

Yeah I tuned out most of my wheel spin by firming up my front bar and I had 165 HP. The open diff only caused problems in a few places during AX and rarely on track.
I know higher HP will need to be tamed with LSD. 265/45/16 rear tires certainly help.

[J P Stein]

Yeah I tuned out most of my wheel spin and I had 165 HP. The open diff only caused problems in a few places during AX. Rarely on track.

I know higher HP will need to be tamed.

I got it all....no bragging, it's just that it is totaly unacceptable for AX.

Another key point that you go after regardless of the consequences.....deal with those later. Mine never totaly lifted, just spun the tire occasionally when the power went on.

I did drive another otherwise good handling car that lifted clear.....what an effin' disaster that made of a sweeper. I like to roll on power just before the apex.....the wheel lifted turning a nicely developing drift into a real clusterfuck of wheel sawing. The car's owner never had that happen....go figure.

Edit

Don't misunderstand, a TB diff is the hot setup for AX.
Just bring around 1800 bucks for the part & install.