 I bought my roll cage today, Autopower bolt-in |
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| Trekkor |
 Dec 8 2006, 09:10 PM
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#41
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I do things...  Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California  |
QUOTE Andy pointed out He would be mistaken. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) 53 3/4" wide from outside of bolt plate to outside of bolt plate. It mounts to the top of the longs. KT |
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| SirAndy |
Dec 8 2006, 09:11 PM
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#42
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(914forme @ Dec 8 2006, 06:59 PM)  BTW, the knee bars will be right there where you don't want it, at your knees. It is bad enough you will probably screw up your leg in a side impact in a teener, due to the shifter, with the knee bars placed below the steering column you run the risk of taking out both legs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that's the beauty of a custom build cage. my "knee" bar sits completely behind the stock dash ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy Attached image(s) 
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| sww914 |
Dec 8 2006, 09:14 PM
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#43
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,439 Joined: 4-June 06 Member No.: 6,146 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Dec 8 2006, 06:08 PM) I don't recommend a knee bar in a cage that has the forward hoops aft of the dash. Positioning the bar below the steering column puts it too close to one's knees, and positioning it above the steering column obscures the gauges. When a roll cage is more fully fitted into the chassis so the forward hoops pass through the dash a cross bar can be positioned at an effective height without danger of impacting body parts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) |
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| Brett W |
Dec 8 2006, 09:42 PM
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#44
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,856 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None 
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None of these bolt in cages address the major issue with our cars. They break off at your feet in a head on accident. You must go forward to keep the body from crushing under major impact.
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| Trekkor |
Dec 8 2006, 09:54 PM
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#45
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE They break off at your feet i don't follow you. Explain. if you are talking about an impact that would crush the car all the way past the dash... Likely not survivable in ANY vehicle. KT |
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| Brett W |
Dec 9 2006, 11:22 AM
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#46
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,856 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None
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I can't find the pictures here, but there is a couple of pictures of teeners that have been in head on collisions. Notice how they fold up. The way our cars are designed they will fold up at the front of the foot box, because of the way the steering rack is mounted in an open tunnel.
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| Randal |
Dec 9 2006, 12:16 PM
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#47
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
QUOTE(trekkor @ Dec 8 2006, 11:27 AM) Can I weld this directly to the Engman Long kit or do I need thicker plates that will be welded to the same Long kit? I will not be bolting it in...Gonna be a full weld up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) KT So Trekkor, are you going to add nice big plates and carry the cage through to the bottom of the car like Paul suggested? Also are you going to fabricate a dash bar? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) BTW you can copy mine, which is easy to do now with everything out of there. FYI It didn't hit my boney knees and I'm over 6 feet. And if your adding a dash bar you can then add the bar from the (top) bar in back that goes down to the dash bar. Real safe then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Dec 9 2006, 02:18 PM
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#48
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Randal @ Dec 9 2006, 10:16 AM) So Trekkor, are you going to add nice big plates and carry the cage through to the bottom of the car like Paul suggested? trek said that his cage bolts to the top of the longs and not the floorpan. no sandwhich/troughbolts needed then ... just a backing plate ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) Andy PS: trek, how thick is the engman long kit material? my backing plates are really thick/heavy, much more so than what i remember from seeing the engman kit ... |
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| nebreitling |
Dec 9 2006, 02:28 PM
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#49
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
mounting plates need to be thick and big. read the (SCCA) gcr for necessary dimensions (I forget off top of my head, but probably .120 thickness -- there is also a surface area requirement iirc). i think mine were 3/16" thick. jp's pictures look just right to me, and andy's cage is obviously worth checking out in person. I think you are definitely going to want to weld this thing in.
have you determined if the tubing is dom? what's the OD and wall thickness? just curious -- i think this setup will be just fine for your intended purpose. i might have some extra dom 1.5x095 in the garage that i could sell you undermarket if you need to do any additional fabbing. |
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| Trekkor |
Dec 9 2006, 02:43 PM
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#50
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
The Engman kit is under an 1/8" thick.
The base of my cage for bolt-in installs is 3/16" thick. 2 1/2"x 5" bolt plates. I want to weld these to the top of the longs. Also use a matching plate under the car that I can bolt through and weld to the underside. The tube is 1 3/4" OD and 1/8" wall thickness ( .125" ) Nate, I would like to get that tube. How long of a piece( s ) do you have? Randal, do you have some pics of the knee bar? KT |
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| nebreitling |
Dec 9 2006, 02:55 PM
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#51
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
QUOTE(trekkor @ Dec 9 2006, 12:43 PM) I want to weld these to the top of the longs. Also use a matching plate under the car that I can bolt through and weld to the underside. i don't know exactly what you're describing, but look at JP's pic of his main hoop base plates: that's how i'd do it given that the autopower hoop already has it's own (too small IMHO) mounting plates. also note his plugwelds and perimeter welds. just a warning, it's a bit tricky managing the heat with a mig when welding the plates (thick) to the longs (not so thick). QUOTE The tube is 1 3/4" OD and 1/8" wall thickness ( .125" ) cool. thickness is .120 (they don't make .125). total overkill for a full-cage in a 914. QUOTE Nate, I would like to get that tube. How long of a piece( s ) do you have? i'll have to check my pile (later this weekend). i also might have some extra plate for your mounting plates. |
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| SirAndy |
Dec 9 2006, 02:58 PM
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#52
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(trekkor @ Dec 9 2006, 12:43 PM) Randal, do you have some pics of the knee bar? i'm not randal, but here's a pic of mine ... note that it completely fits behid the stock dash, as you can see (actually, you can't see it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) in the other picture i posted earlier ... with dash removed ...  fuzzy pic of dash subframe ...  one more ...  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Andy PS: bolting through the longs will be difficult as they're NOT empty ... you've got the metal parts of the heater tubes in the front and back and inbetween you got the heater mufflers ... bolting through will destroy them ... |
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| nebreitling |
Dec 9 2006, 03:01 PM
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#53
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
QUOTE PS: bolting through the longs will be difficult as they're NOT empty ... you've got the metal parts of the heater tubes in the front and back and inbetween you got the heater mufflers ... bolting through will destroy them ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) our resident german is correct. |
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| Trekkor |
Dec 9 2006, 03:08 PM
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#54
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
Thanks for posting those pics, Andy.
Your cage is one of the nicest out there. I may have a piece of tube custom bent for the knee bar that goes up and out of the way. What about fabbing a tube that goes over the top of the dash, behind the guage pod and fitted to the contour of the windshield? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) KT |
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| brant |
Dec 9 2006, 04:30 PM
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#55
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,620 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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coming out of lurk mode briefly for your bennefit trekkor:
the rear lower tube is perhaps the most important tube on the entire cage: Attached thumbnail(s)  Attached image(s) 
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| Joe Ricard |
Dec 9 2006, 05:10 PM
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#56
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CUMONIWANNARACEU Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 |
Brany that is so sweet.
If I were to do a cage it would be just like that only weld in. |
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| brant |
Dec 9 2006, 05:14 PM
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#57
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,620 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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Thanks Joe,
it started life as a safety devices bolt in. (one nice thing about the Safety Devices is that they are lighter and utilize smaller guage seamless tubing) but now despite those remaining bolts, it is definitely permanent. most of the foot pads are welded down (the bolts held it in place for welding) and the front and rear bars are welded in (as well as the side bars) so it basically will never come out unless something goes seriously wrong and the car is totaled. brant |
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| Brett W |
Dec 9 2006, 05:22 PM
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#58
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,856 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None
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Hey, Joe, lets do cage for your car. Bring it up and we can do it here.
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| Trekkor |
Dec 9 2006, 05:57 PM
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#59
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
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| 914forme |
Dec 10 2006, 12:50 PM
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#60
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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As always Brant, that is sick!!!
I like the knee bar be welded into the dash area. And I really like your lets incorporated stiffing of the logs with our cage plates. I still like the plates going all the way down to the floor like Brant's rear plate does. You can add a plate under the car if you think you need to, and then the log will not crush under the cage. You could drop a car on it and not crush the logs. Brant why you like the lower bar so much? I have my ideas, but just want verification. |
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