 Nippondenso no help, Starter woes continue |
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| apoplexy |
 Jan 8 2007, 03:23 PM
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#1
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eh?  Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 6-April 04 From: San Jose, Ca. Member No.: 1,898  |
Well hell. Got myself a new battery, tested the voltage in a few places-at brain using the 3 prong lead, at starter) tried to check from ignition to brain while cranking, but couldn't figure out which post it was.
Installed Nippondenso starter (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-911-MINI-STARTER-IMI-PORSCHE-912-914-% 20930_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33576QQihZ012QQitemZ220006680668QQrdZ1QQsspagen ameZWDVW) Thanks Dr. Evil... Checked voltage, always hot, made sure everything was plugged into the right place... yes. Got lots of lights and a damn loud stereo volume, but not even a click from the starter. Just.... nothing, zip, nada. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) Dude, what's up with my car? |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| SGB |
Jan 8 2007, 03:28 PM
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#2
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just visiting Group: Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 8-March 03 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 404 Region Association: South East States |
Can you short terminals to see if the starter runs (bypass solimoid)?
With sparkplugs out, can the crank be turned? |
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| apoplexy |
Jan 8 2007, 03:29 PM
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#3
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eh? Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 6-April 04 From: San Jose, Ca. Member No.: 1,898 |
QUOTE(SGB @ Jan 8 2007, 01:28 PM)  Can you short terminals to see if the starter runs (bypass solimoid)? With sparkplugs out, can the crank be turned? Short Terminals? 'Splain Lucy... is that the screwdriver trick? |
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| Mark Henry |
Jan 8 2007, 03:41 PM
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#4
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
Clean all your grounds, search ford solinoid.
Is it turning over slow or not at all? |
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| apoplexy |
Jan 8 2007, 03:43 PM
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#5
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eh? Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 6-April 04 From: San Jose, Ca. Member No.: 1,898 |
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 8 2007, 01:41 PM) search ford solinoid. Is it turning over slow or not at all? search ford solinoid? What does that mean? It does not turn over at ALL. Nothing, no click, no sound, nothing. |
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| toon1 |
Jan 8 2007, 03:55 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 29-October 05 From: tracy,ca Member No.: 5,022 |
QUOTE(apoplexy @ Jan 8 2007, 01:43 PM) QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 8 2007, 01:41 PM) search ford solinoid. Is it turning over slow or not at all? search ford solinoid? What does that mean? It does not turn over at ALL. Nothing, no click, no sound, nothing. Is your ground cable from the trans. to the chassis connected?? |
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| Joe Ricard |
Jan 8 2007, 04:07 PM
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#7
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CUMONIWANNARACEU Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 |
Yea that's a classic one.
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| SLITS |
Jan 8 2007, 04:13 PM
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#8
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None  |
I agree with Toothless Joe, but also follow the bouncing ball .....
1.) You have two red wires that go the big terminal on the starter ... one from the battery and one from the alternator harness. 2.) You have a yellow wire that comes from the ignition switch that goes to a spade terminal on the starter .... with the key in the START position, you should have 12 VDC. If you don't, either the connections at the relay board or your ignition switch is bad. 3.) If you stick a screwdriver to connect the big pole with the spade terminal, the starter should engage and turn the engine. If none of this is understandable, step away from the car and call a mechanic. |
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| Mark Henry |
Jan 8 2007, 05:03 PM
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#9
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
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| apoplexy |
Jan 8 2007, 05:03 PM
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#10
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eh? Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 6-April 04 From: San Jose, Ca. Member No.: 1,898 |
QUOTE(SLITS @ Jan 8 2007, 02:13 PM) I agree with Toothless Joe, but also follow the bouncing ball ..... 1.) You have two red wires that go the big terminal on the starter ... one from the battery and one from the alternator harness. 2.) You have a yellow wire that comes from the ignition switch that goes to a spade terminal on the starter .... with the key in the START position, you should have 12 VDC. If you don't, either the connections at the relay board or your ignition switch is bad. 3.) If you stick a screwdriver to connect the big pole with the spade terminal, the starter should engage and turn the engine. If none of this is understandable, step away from the car and call a mechanic. Ja, #1 is good, wires are there. #2, I should have 12V to the yellow spade? I like a dumbass checked the one from the battery, that's ALWAYS HOT. *head slap* #3 is not exactly possible, there's some lovely plastic housing that's attached to the starter where the spade is. Dammit. Can't even push it out of the way to make contact. I suppose I could strip some of the wire housing away above the spade *shudder*. I hate that test. HATE IT. That Bosch muffler scares me silly every time. |
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| Dr Evil |
Jan 8 2007, 05:15 PM
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#11
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Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 23,001 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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Your ig switch may be done. If you can not get 12v (no less) to the yellow spade connector then you are dropping too much voltage between the battery and starter throught he wiring and switch (provided the ground strap is good and hooked up as mentioned above).
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| apoplexy |
Jan 8 2007, 05:22 PM
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#12
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eh? Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 6-April 04 From: San Jose, Ca. Member No.: 1,898 |
QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Jan 8 2007, 03:15 PM) Your ig switch may be done. If you can not get 12v (no less) to the yellow spade connector then you are dropping too much voltage between the battery and starter throught he wiring and switch (provided the ground strap is good and hooked up as mentioned above). Yeah, I will check the yellow spade tonight.... the ig switch was replaced a few months ago, and it started fine for a while, then degraded again. Loved push-starting it on the streets of downtown San Ramon. Fun Fun. If there's no signal at the spade I will definitely push start it back to the wrench and ask them to give the ig another go! Thanks guys!!! Carrie |
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| Chris Pincetich |
Jan 8 2007, 07:12 PM
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#13
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B-) Group: Members Posts: 2,082 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Point Reyes Station, CA Member No.: 4,907 Region Association: Northern California |
This may be worth nothing, but my solution to a similar problem was the ground to the (-) battery terminal was bad. I would get a click from the new starter, but not enought good juice to turn it over. The metal post on the body was all rust and paint and broke off when I turned the nut. Grounding the battery to the fan housing solved my "intermitant starter" problem. Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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| degreeoff |
Jan 8 2007, 07:17 PM
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#14
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I like big butts and I can not lie! Group: Members Posts: 1,622 Joined: 9-February 03 From: Booowieeee MD (near DC) Member No.: 275 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I don't think anyone hit on this BUT....hot start relay?? The wire from the ignition to the starter corrodes (its a temp fix but mine lasted 5 yrs)
its cheap and fast like 20 bucks and 15 min install |
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| Hammy |
Jan 8 2007, 07:52 PM
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#15
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mr. Wonderful Group: Members Posts: 1,826 Joined: 20-October 04 From: Columbia, California Member No.: 2,978 Region Association: Northern California |
Make sure you clean all ground contacts(tranny ground and battery ground to chassis). Make sure any and all contacts are clean and making good contact.
Clean up your battery posts with sandpaper. Make sure your battery terminals are on tight. That can cause some funky problems....... If you're going to do the screwdriver starter jump, make sure it's out of gear. Even if you think it is, double check. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Hot start relay works but shouldn't be needed if everything is working right. It's a band aid approach. |
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 8 2007, 09:29 PM
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#16
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,482 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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Here's a diagram I drew of the starter a while back....
 You can put a spade connector on a long piece of 10ga wire, plug it on to the starter in place of the yellow wire, and with the car out of gear, touch it to the positive battery post. If it cranks, then you have a problem with the start circuit in the wiring harness. Is this a 74? If so, check the big brother relay under the passenger seat. |
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| apoplexy |
Jan 9 2007, 01:25 PM
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#17
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eh? Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 6-April 04 From: San Jose, Ca. Member No.: 1,898 |
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jan 8 2007, 07:29 PM) Here's a diagram I drew of the starter a while back.... You can put a spade connector on a long piece of 10ga wire, plug it on to the starter in place of the yellow wire, and with the car out of gear, touch it to the positive battery post. If it cranks, then you have a problem with the start circuit in the wiring harness. Is this a 74? If so, check the big brother relay under the passenger seat. THANK YOU for the diagram. When my husband was checking the voltage after I swapped the starters, he was like.. are you SURE this was how you were supposed to do the wires? Is this one always supposed to always be hot? I said ... Dude, this is how it was on the old one, so I put it back the same and probably yes, that one comes from the battery...and here lemme get my book.... Man I hate Haynes. They had zip. Well after digging around the wiring diagram it made sense but damn. This guy is a 72 so I've been assured I don't have to take my seat out... I will be checking everything out voltage wise that I missed last time (yellow wire) and see what I can find and maybe do the bypass test *wince* Would hate to think the Solenoid is dust since it IS a new starter. *grumble* Anyway, THANKS! Carrie |
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 9 2007, 05:38 PM
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#18
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,482 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(apoplexy @ Jan 9 2007, 01:25 PM) QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jan 8 2007, 07:29 PM) Here's a diagram I drew of the starter a while back.... You can put a spade connector on a long piece of 10ga wire, plug it on to the starter in place of the yellow wire, and with the car out of gear, touch it to the positive battery post. If it cranks, then you have a problem with the start circuit in the wiring harness. Is this a 74? If so, check the big brother relay under the passenger seat. THANK YOU for the diagram. When my husband was checking the voltage after I swapped the starters, he was like.. are you SURE this was how you were supposed to do the wires? Is this one always supposed to always be hot? I said ... Dude, this is how it was on the old one, so I put it back the same and probably yes, that one comes from the battery...and here lemme get my book.... Man I hate Haynes. They had zip. Well after digging around the wiring diagram it made sense but damn. This guy is a 72 so I've been assured I don't have to take my seat out... I will be checking everything out voltage wise that I missed last time (yellow wire) and see what I can find and maybe do the bypass test *wince* Would hate to think the Solenoid is dust since it IS a new starter. *grumble* Anyway, THANKS! Carrie Glad I could be of help... I wouldn't climb under the car and jump the solenoid. I would use the wire I described. Its safer, you aren't under the car with the starter turning. Get it running and bring it to the Atomic Ramble. i would love to meet you and your husband. |
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| SLITS |
Jan 9 2007, 05:53 PM
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#19
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
Don't feel bad .... rebuilders and mini-torque manufacturers buy solenoids from a supplier. Sometimes they don't get crimped as well as they should (they crimp the can around the bakelite to hold it) and it won't make contact as is should. Try shutting your car off at a gas station, pumping gas, getting into start it and having the starter motor continually run with the key on, but no engagement of the bendix gear. Yep, the poor crimp, the solenoid rotated enough to get contact from the hot battery lead to the starter motor lead. A twist of the solenoid and we're on our way again.
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| apoplexy |
Jan 10 2007, 11:16 AM
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#20
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eh? Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 6-April 04 From: San Jose, Ca. Member No.: 1,898 |
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jan 8 2007, 07:29 PM) Glad I could be of help... I wouldn't climb under the car and jump the solenoid. I would use the wire I described. Its safer, you aren't under the car with the starter turning. Get it running and bring it to the Atomic Ramble. i would love to meet you and your husband. Well, wouldn't you know. I'm laying under the car to check the voltage on the "yellow" wire and had my husband hop in to crank the ignition and it TURNED OVER. WTF. I yelped, and he did it again. I hopped in and tried it, nothing. HE who hates the car has the TOUCH?! Anyway, it has to be the ignition switch now! He started it for me and I drove it to work. Got here, I can't get it to go, but I'm so happy to have actually driven that car I could give a rats ass. I will start searching for deets on the Atomic Ramble... thanks for the heads up! Carrie |
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