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> Gasket, Cyl and head gaskets
StratPlayer
post Jan 31 2007, 04:21 PM
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Been looking at the gaskets that came with the gasket kit I bought. The gaskets for the cyl. and heads total 7,, 3 alum. gaskets thin, 4 smaller but thicker alum. gaskets. Shouldn't the total for these gaskets be 8, I think I'm missing one of the thinner gaskets for the cylinders am I correct?
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Allan
post Jan 31 2007, 04:27 PM
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Are you gonna run the head gaskets? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. If you are then it sounds like you are missing 1...
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bahnzai
post Jan 31 2007, 05:46 PM
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Yes, thin ones are for the cylinder to case seal and the thicker ones for the cylinder to head seal. You are short one.
For what it is worth, I did have a local Porsche mechanic tell me they use to run the VWs without head gaskets. He said they lapped the the cylinders to the heads for a good seal. Also yielded a slight bump in compression.
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Jake Raby
post Jan 31 2007, 05:54 PM
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NO head gaskets!

VW said so themselves in 1981 with the factory bulletin on the subject.

Head gaskets are evil-
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StratPlayer
post Jan 31 2007, 07:01 PM
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What about the cylinder gaskets, In your video you used the gaskets that fit to the base of the cylinder to the case?
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type47
post Jan 31 2007, 07:22 PM
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bulletin


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Technical_Bulletin_elimination_of_head_gasket.doc ( 43.5k ) Number of downloads: 148
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Al Meredith
post Jan 31 2007, 07:43 PM
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Check the thin (cylinder to case) ones ; they stick together sometime.
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brp914
post Jan 31 2007, 08:05 PM
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I bought an elring set recently and parts were missing from it too. Sucks - catch 22. If you open them, you can't return them, but you won't notice something missing until you open it.

One seal has always been missing from 914-4 sets is the seal behind the fan hub. Without it you will have a leak that will make you think front pulley seal or oil cooler seal. Make sure you get one.
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StratPlayer
post Jan 31 2007, 08:50 PM
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Yep, I checked to see if any of those were stuck together an none were. So I am missing one of the cylinder gaskets, anyone out there have and extra, 2.0L.
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ClayPerrine
post Jan 31 2007, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE(type47 @ Jan 31 2007, 07:22 PM) *

bulletin



If you read the bulletin.. it says "Type II/Vanagon" not 914 of any vintage. And the engine codes are wrong for the deletion of the head gaskets.


The models listed here had the mods that eliminated the gaskets, the 914 engine does not.


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sean_v8_914
post Feb 1 2007, 09:49 AM
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type II and Vanagon used teh type 4 engine after the 914 went away. Clay, I dont know your background. are you an engine builder also?
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ClayPerrine
post Feb 1 2007, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE(sean_v8_914 @ Feb 1 2007, 09:49 AM) *

type II and Vanagon used teh type 4 engine after the 914 went away. Clay, I dont know your background. are you an engine builder also?



Professional mechanic for many years. Lots of VW and Porsche experience. I traded in my wrenches for a laptop and now I manage servers.


The vanagon and Type II are from different years and have different engine code numbers. Manufactures make changes to the production items many times over the production life. Basing a major change on a document that is not specifically written for the year, make, model, and engine code is a risky prospect. The manufacturer may have changed the later models to work without the head gaskets, but the Type-IV in the 914 was designed to use the head gasket, and there is NO tech bulletin that specifically states to eliminate the head gasket on a 914 motor.


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Aaron Cox
post Feb 1 2007, 12:26 PM
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just lots of research and experience that say otherwise clay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)
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StratPlayer
post Feb 1 2007, 12:31 PM
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Question of the year, should one USE headgaskets, or should one NOT USE headgaskets. As a first time engine builder of the type 4 this issue sure has me confused. I bet any other first time builders find this confusing as well. Some for, some against, leaves me in the middle wondering which direction to go.
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Aaron Cox
post Feb 1 2007, 12:37 PM
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2 schools of thought.

YES and NO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


YES - the old skoolers. do it by the "book", the Krusty's, Perrines, etc.... its how the factory did it....
NO - Raby's, etc. extensive dyno tests and experience. say lap the cylinders into the head.... lots of experience this way on the samba/type4rum,aircooledtech forums.....

if all else is the same... omitting head gaskets gives you a minute bump in CR
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Brando
post Feb 1 2007, 06:43 PM
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After tearing down about 8 TIVs for 914 owners at my work, the first thing I always saw when pulling the heads off were big black deposits around the bottom of the cylinder. Inspect the gasket -- and they look like a rat nibbled away at the edges. We always lap the cylinder into the head.
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McMark
post Feb 1 2007, 06:48 PM
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Check your deck height. I only consider the cylinder to case gasket a shim that you might need to correct a too small deck height.
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