 Adjusting my Weltmeister sway bar, Lowering the arms lower |
|
|
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
|
  |
| chris914 |
 Mar 20 2007, 03:40 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Member  Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California  |
My car is at 4-1/5 inches in the front now, and the Weltmeister sway bar arms are not parallel with the ground, because I can’t make the adjusters shorted. They are at 45 plus degrees.
Do I just cut the turn buckle shorted or do they sell shorter sets? |
   |
 
|
| rick 918-S |
Mar 20 2007, 11:19 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,460 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region 
|
|
|
|
|
| DanT |
Mar 20 2007, 11:35 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(chris914 @ Mar 20 2007, 02:40 PM)  My car is at 4-1/5 inches in the front now, and the Westminster sway bar arms are not parallel with the ground, because I can’t make the adjusters shorted. They are at 45 plus degrees. Do I just cut the turn buckle shorted or do they sell shorter sets? Not to be too technical...but aren't you referring to a Weltmeister sway bar? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
|
|
|
| 914-8 |
Mar 20 2007, 11:45 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 802 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Cal Member No.: 5,461 Region Association: None |
This is a very confusing post.
Why do you care if your swaybar arms are at 45 degrees instead of parallel to the ground? What are you trying to accomplish? |
|
|
|
| Aaron Cox |
Mar 21 2007, 02:45 AM
Post
#5
|
|
Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
lever arm changes with angle.........
arms parallel to the ground gives you the most mechanical advantage on the sway bar.... |
|
|
|
| chris914 |
Mar 21 2007, 01:38 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
Think about it. If the sway bar arms start at 45 and the car rolls any amount the control arm raises causing the sway bar arm to point up even more. If it is straight up, say 0 degrees, then there is no more spring in the suspension, and the sway bar mount in the body is taking all the load of the car at that wheel.
|
|
|
|
| chris914 |
Mar 21 2007, 01:42 PM
Post
#7
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Mar 20 2007, 10:35 PM) QUOTE(chris914 @ Mar 20 2007, 02:40 PM) My car is at 4-1/5 inches in the front now, and the Westminster sway bar arms are not parallel with the ground, because I can’t make the adjusters shorted. They are at 45 plus degrees. Do I just cut the turn buckle shorted or do they sell shorter sets? Not to be too technical...but aren't you referring to a Weltmeister sway bar? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Yes lol, my speel checher changed it for me. |
|
|
|
| chris914 |
Mar 21 2007, 01:43 PM
Post
#8
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Mar 20 2007, 10:19 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)  |
|
|
|
| rick 918-S |
Mar 21 2007, 03:29 PM
Post
#9
|
|
Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,460 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region
|
QUOTE(chris914 @ Mar 21 2007, 11:43 AM) QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Mar 20 2007, 10:19 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif) I was wondering what your bar looked like as it is installed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif) |
|
|
|
| r_towle |
Mar 21 2007, 03:50 PM
Post
#10
|
|
Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
|
If someone does not pipe in for you, I will be taking apart quite a bit of the front end this weekend and I can take a picture of it installed.
Rich |
|
|
|
| Chris Pincetich |
Mar 21 2007, 05:54 PM
Post
#11
|
|
B-) Group: Members Posts: 2,082 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Point Reyes Station, CA Member No.: 4,907 Region Association: Northern California |
45 deg up?
Mine are up a little bit, like 10-15 deg, and my front end is pretty darn low. I think the turnbuckles are all turned out....I was thinking about this same mod/cutting. If it was 45 deg I would! BUT something might not be right for them to be THAT angled. I have pics at home I can post tonight. I think mine are preloaded a bit, so I have stiffer front spring rates! If anybody has a good link to pros/cons explanation of sway bar loading vs no load I'd be very interested in the explanations. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
|
|
|
| Borderline |
Mar 21 2007, 06:57 PM
Post
#12
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 8-February 05 From: San Juan Bautista, CA Member No.: 3,577 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(ChrisNPDrider @ Mar 21 2007, 03:54 PM) I think mine are preloaded a bit, so I have stiffer front spring rates! If anybody has a good link to pros/cons explanation of sway bar loading vs no load I'd be very interested in the explanations. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Chris, what you talking about? The sway bar is used to reduce body roll in the corners. Preloading a sway bar will only screw up your corner wts and make it handle different in LH or Rh corners. Standard procedure is to disconnect the sway bar and adjust ride ht and corner wts on a level surface. When all is set, then you re-connect the sway bar (s) while the car is still sitting on the level surface making sure the links attach without preloading the bar. I guess the nascar guys might preload their bars when doing only lh turnss. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
|
|
|
| Chris Pincetich |
Mar 21 2007, 07:26 PM
Post
#13
|
|
B-) Group: Members Posts: 2,082 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Point Reyes Station, CA Member No.: 4,907 Region Association: Northern California |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
I set them when the front was raised when it sounds like the car should have been level....when I put it down I noticed it wasn't perfect. BUT it handles great both ways so my newbie adjustments didn't seem to mess up anything noticeable. For some reason I thought I had equal preload on both sides and it made it stiffer. I totally understand the role of the AR bar, but the "loading" aspect is still a little confusing. All you geniuses out there, don't hold back with the explanations (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
|
|
|
| Borderline |
Mar 21 2007, 10:12 PM
Post
#14
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 8-February 05 From: San Juan Bautista, CA Member No.: 3,577 Region Association: Northern California |
I don't know what more you want to know. Sway bars are not generally "loaded" until you enter a corner or one wheel hits a bump or hole that the other doesn't hit. In a turn the body roll tries to twist the sway bar. A larger sway bar limits the body roll more than a smaller one. Vehicle analysis when cornering gets a little complicated. Weight is transferred to the outer wheels and is controlled by a combination of spring rates and sway bars and the balance front to rear. Adding spring stiffness and a larger sway bar to the front in will in general cause a car to understeer. Adding spring stiffness and larger sway bars to the rear will cause a car to oversteer. Most people set up the car with adjustable sway bars (the length of the arm can be adjusted) and use this to get the handling balance they desire. Moving the link on the sway bar arm closer to the bar itself makes it stiffer, moving the link farther from the sway bar makes it softer.
The fun is getting the spring/torsion bar rates and the sway bar rates all set to where you get the balance and feel of the car to where you want it. |
|
|
|
| chris914 |
Mar 21 2007, 11:29 PM
Post
#15
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
I never said I wanted to preload my sway, lol. I want to set the arms Parallel to the ground. I was wondering if you can do it without buying the fully adustable linkage. Here is a picture:
 |
|
|
|
| 914-8 |
Mar 21 2007, 11:35 PM
Post
#16
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 802 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Cal Member No.: 5,461 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(chris914 @ Mar 21 2007, 10:29 PM) I want to set the arms Parallel to the ground. Again: WHY?? What do you feel that will accomplish? |
|
|
|
| chris914 |
Mar 21 2007, 11:45 PM
Post
#17
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(914-8 @ Mar 21 2007, 10:35 PM) QUOTE(chris914 @ Mar 21 2007, 10:29 PM) I want to set the arms Parallel to the ground. Again: WHY?? What do you feel that will accomplish? Sets the geometry up correctly. The way the engineers designed it to work. |
|
|
|
| Aaron Cox |
Mar 22 2007, 12:02 AM
Post
#18
|
|
Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(chris914 @ Mar 21 2007, 10:45 PM) QUOTE(914-8 @ Mar 21 2007, 10:35 PM) QUOTE(chris914 @ Mar 21 2007, 10:29 PM) I want to set the arms Parallel to the ground. Again: WHY?? What do you feel that will accomplish? Sets the geometry up correctly. The way the engineers designed it to work. again... LEVER ARM. when the bars are parrallel to the axis of the a arm pivots... it gives you the MOST mechanical advantage on the swaybar..... |
|
|
|
| eeyore |
Mar 22 2007, 12:03 AM
Post
#19
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 889 Joined: 8-January 04 From: meridian, id Member No.: 1,533 Region Association: None |
Chris. Show us the bottom of the link too.
If all else fails, call Ira Ramin at Tarett and see if he has a spare set of front droplinks he'd sell you. We could work out the necessary spacers, bolts. They'll be too long also, but I need to adjust the mine. If I'm doing one set, I might as well do two. |
|
|
|
| Aaron Cox |
Mar 22 2007, 12:10 AM
Post
#20
|
|
Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
Rotational Moment-
M= fd f=force d=perpendicular distance. M1=f d1 > M2=f d2 the d becomes larger when the arms are parralel to the axis of the a arm pivots..... scalar value is larger when a larger d is used.... Attached image(s) 
|
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 17th May 2024 - 05:49 PM |
Invision Power Board
v9.1.4 © 2024 IPS, Inc.