Heat exchanger restoration Options

[xsurfer]

Can 6 cyl. heat exchangers be repaired to original? Did the heat exchangers have paint/coatings that could hide a repair?

[Pat Garvey]

A pic of the heat exchangers could help here. Doubtful the repairs can be hidden, but if you can make them functional & aren't going to concours the car, who cares?

[orthobiz]

Move this post if I'm hijacking here, but I also have questions about refinishing the heat exchangers. These are the originals in my 74 1.8 liter. As you can see, the moist, oily underbelly is not as pretty as her body!

These pics might serve as a good starting point about restoration, specifically with both longevity and originality in mind. I believe Brad Mayeur spoke of refinishing the exhaust/HE system and curing (or at least slowing down) the oil leaks...

Thanks,

Paul

[Bleyseng]

Why bother with the HE's. Dump them for a set of 1.7/1.8 SSI ones as those are still around and look/work a whole lot better than stock. They are stainless steel, slightly larger diameter pipe to improve exhaust flow, give better heat and don't rust.

Check the CV's as it looks like they might be throwing grease...

[xsurfer]

Concours is the goal. not soon but the goal. I have a set that I could repair if the concours accepts the painted heat exchanger. Very new to 914-6.

A pic of the heat exchangers could help here. Doubtful the repairs can be hidden, but if you can make them functional & aren't going to concours the car, who cares?

[orthobiz]

I think Xsurfer and I have the same goals. Right now I think my exhaust and heat exchangers work fine. My engine is gonna get pulled to fix seals, etc. May even need to respray some corrosion on the battery side. So, time to refinish the exhaust/HE.

Best way to go with this, please?

Paul

[Bleyseng]

I thought they were all painted a grey color to begin with. Repair the 914/6 HE's carefully and they should be fine.

914 HE's are a different story but I guess you could remove all the rust somehow (media blasting) then paint them. Lots of work on the engine to clean it up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[IronHillRestorations]

I've successfully repaired several sets of 914-6 heat exchangers. It isn't very easy to make a undetectable repair on these things, I've come close, but it takes a lot of time.

I also recommend getting a CO1 indicator from a pilot's shop, just for safety's sake. It's a little card that turns blue if you are getting CO1 in the cabin.

[Pat Garvey]

Why bother with the HE's. Dump them for a set of 1.7/1.8 SSI ones as those are still around and look/work a whole lot better than stock. They are stainless steel, slightly larger diameter pipe to improve exhaust flow, give better heat and don't rust.

Check the CV's as it looks like they might be throwing grease...

Have to agree with Geoff on both topics.

Lose the original HE's - they will only get worse, and the price for SSI's will continue to increase. Nice thing about the SSI's is that they seem to last forever! Bought mine in '74 & they look better than new today - with no deterioration. Concours judges pretty much accept them as an acceptable replacement too.

No matter how much you keep after your ferrous steel HE's, they will come back to haunt you whenever you hit wet roads. Nice to have, but too much upkeep.

And yes, your CV joints appear to be slinging grease. How old are the boots? Yes, they are an absolute bitch to change, but the joints are almost irreplaceable these days & need to be protected. They should last just about forever if kept clean & well greased.

Words of wisdom - never try to take a joint apart & clean/re-grease the balls. Been there - once was all it took! Bad decision!
Pat

[orthobiz]

Pat, The CV boots are original, I'm sure. I'll make sure to point them out to Brad Mayeur when he goes over the car.

Anyway, I'm surprised a bit about your opinion on the SS HE's as I would think it would go against the "original" nature of the vehicle. (detecting tiny chinks in your armor, lol)

I'm glad judges tend to ignore the SS. I'll see how much it costs to repaint/refinish the originals first. I'm told they're functioning, so there may not be a rush to do a replacement at this time.

Then the question arises: will the 2.0 SS and exhaust fit on the 1.8 motor? And would the judges let that one slide???

Paul

[Pat Garvey]

Pat, The CV boots are original, I'm sure. I'll make sure to point them out to Brad Mayeur when he goes over the car.

Anyway, I'm surprised a bit about your opinion on the SS HE's as I would think it would go against the "original" nature of the vehicle. (detecting tiny chinks in your armor, lol)

I'm glad judges tend to ignore the SS. I'll see how much it costs to repaint/refinish the originals first. I'm told they're functioning, so there may not be a rush to do a replacement at this time.

Then the question arises: will the 2.0 SS and exhaust fit on the 1.8 motor? And would the judges let that one slide???

Paul

Paul,

I have a number of "chinks". I try to make them fewer every year, though.

As I understand it, the 2.0's would not fit without some other noticeable changes. Don't recommend it for a concours car. Howver, since the "original" HE's are NLA from Porsche (once again, my understanding) as new parts, you're forced to go with what is available, And, the SSI's have been out of production for years too! Fortunately, they don't degrade.

I've said this before - concours boils down to low key (regional/zone) (multi-marque, etc) and hardcore - PCA National - this IS the most difficult!

At all levels, except PCA National, you can probably get away with SSI's, provided you make up for it in another area. Example: lots of people have changed to braided steel brake lines - instant deduct. Dashtop original - plus; cracked - deduct, overlay - deduct. Aftermarket seals - deduct. Non-original wheels/tires - deduct.

When it comes to HE's, you're better off with the original - provided they aren't pitted/rusted and the seams all fit tightly. Repairs must be undetcable. If you go with SSI's, you can "bling" them easily with SOS, Simichrome, or the product of you're choice. The judges know these things are irreplaceable and, though they may make a minor deduct (.5 - 1.0 pts), most 914's have them. If not, make up for it in another area. Make your carpet cleaner than the next guy, make your headlight motors show the tiger stripes more blatantly( I have a trick for that).

Years ago, PCA recognized that some upgrades to specific models were actually favorable. (911 E hydro-strut suspensions, 914 fuel line upgrades, etc). A knowledgeable judge is aware of these things - SSI upgrades are USUALLY cosidered OK. But, if a rare original 914 is included with your judging group, you will lose points for everything that is not original, because they have a benchmark on site.

Pat

[orthobiz]

Pat, thanks for the thoughtful reply. But when it comes to the SS exchangers, NLA???Say it ain't so! Looks like AA lists it for 600 each side.

Paul

[davep]

I agree with Pat on the concours side of things.
Keeping SSI exchangers pristine is far easier than the original version. That means it is pretty much a wash between deduct for non-original and deduct for condition. You don't want to be removing them very often due to potential head damage.

Since there are no SSI for the 914/6, preservation is essential. I believe a few guys have used Jet-Hot on theirs with success. I would want to err on the preservation side (keeping ones investment intact) as opposed to a deduct at a concours.

[Pat Garvey]

Pat, thanks for the thoughtful reply. But when it comes to the SS exchangers, NLA???Say it ain't so! Looks like AA lists it for 600 each side.

Paul

Paul,

SSI stopped making 914 HE's years ago - probably not enough demand. There's probably someone who's squirreled away a new set somewhere, but most you find will be used. That's not bad, because they ARE stainless - the weakest point being the flange from HE to muffler (but it's pretty thick).

Unless AA stocked some new one away years ago, they are used & probably cleaned up & polished. But, $1200/set? Sorry, but that's absurd. I paid $240/set for mine in '74, but that's ancient history.

Fact is, these things are on eBay weekly - and for realistic prices. Yeah, they may be grungy, but underneath lies that wonderful stainless. Lasts for life. SSI makes excellent products.

Watch eBay & the classifieds here. It's not necessary to get ripped off if you don't mind a little cleaning. And no blasting! Clean with chemicals, brass wool & Simichrome. They;ll look like chrome!
Pat

[natemeins]

Hello all,
This seemed like the right thread to ask this question, forgive me if it's not. I've recently acquired a set of heat exchangers from a popular auction site that were described as "little used, 1.7/1.8 heat exchangers". I got them for a steal. Upon receiving them, I realized they had very little rust, and we're in great condition. And by little rust, I mean no rust except for the muffler flanges which had little to moderate rust (looks like it may have been leaking for a while) The shrouds were "shiny" as if they were made of aluminum? And the headers are discolored with maybe light surface rust or something? Definately something a little polish or scouring pad could clean.  I checked it with a fridge magnet and the shroud was non-ferrous, and the headers barely if anything had any magnetism. Have I stumbled upon a set of well-used stainless heat exchangers or just a damn good set of originals? Is there a better tell like a stamping or something?

[Pat Garvey]

Hello all,
This seemed like the right thread to ask this question, forgive me if it's not. I've recently acquired a set of heat exchangers from a popular auction site that were described as "little used, 1.7/1.8 heat exchangers". I got them for a steal. Upon receiving them, I realized they had very little rust, and we're in great condition. And by little rust, I mean no rust except for the muffler flanges which had little to moderate rust (looks like it may have been leaking for a while) The shrouds were "shiny" as if they were made of aluminum? And the headers are discolored with maybe light surface rust or something? Definately something a little polish or scouring pad could clean.  I checked it with a fridge magnet and the shroud was non-ferrous, and the headers barely if anything had any magnetism. Have I stumbled upon a set of well-used stainless heat exchangers or just a damn good set of originals? Is there a better tell like a stamping or something?

What you have is a set of early stainless heat exchangers made by SSI. The shrouds are 100% stainless, as well as the inner tubes. Early models had ferrous muffler flanges, but are thick enough to never be a concern. Late models had stainless flanges.

These should last your lifetime, and are easily brightened up with stainless bar polish, or just a plain old SOS pad. The flanges on yours will need some help from a wire brush, but that's it. Just make certain that you use new flange gaskets & that the surfaces are clean & smooth.

Good purchase & welcome to the mayhem!
Pat