OT: 230 MPG car ..., Cars related Options

[Demick]

1 cent per mile

I've done some calculations, and figure closer to 5 cents per mile for electric.

Anyone charging an electric car at home will be way over baseline quantities and the price goes way up (at least where I live). I know that for 130% to 200% of baseline quantities, I pay 22 cents per KWH. I don't know if the price continues to increase above 200%, but you would certainly find out if you dump 20KWH into your car every day. So unless you spend $20K on a solar array on top of your home, electric isn't as cheap as you might think. But if you can afford a $100K Tesla car, then you ought to have no problem with the solar array too.

Also, don't forget that your battery replacement cost on the Tesla is about 30 cents per mile ($30,000 per 100,000 miles)

A fuel efficient car can be in the 7 or 8 cents per mile range for fuel.

P.S. Don't get me wrong. I would REALLY like to build an electric car to commute in, and I've looked into the costs in a pretty detailed way, and have come to the conclusion that an electric car costs several times as much to run as a fuel efficient gas car. But the time will come.

[LarryR]

1 cent per mile

I've done some calculations, and figure closer to 5 cents per mile for electric.

Anyone charging an electric car at home will be way over baseline quantities and the price goes way up (at least where I live). I know that for 130% to 200% of baseline quantities, I pay 22 cents per KWH. I don't know if the price continues to increase above 200%, but you would certainly find out if you dump 20KWH into your car every day. So unless you spend $20K on a solar array on top of your home, electric isn't as cheap as you might think. But if you can afford a $100K Tesla car, then you ought to have no problem with the solar array too.

Also, don't forget that your battery replacement cost on the Tesla is about 30 cents per mile ($30,000 per 100,000 miles)

A fuel efficient car can be in the 7 or 8 cents per mile range for fuel.

P.S. Don't get me wrong. I would REALLY like to build an electric car to commute in, and I've looked into the costs in a pretty detailed way, and have come to the conclusion that an electric car costs several times as much to run as a fuel efficient gas car. But the time will come.

Granted I was hiting the highlights as posted on the Tesla sight... However, one thing I would like to point out is that the batteries will no way cost 30K per 100K miles. I can provide you with tons of documentation on this. There is only a 1% loss of capacity per 1000 charges. So in theory the battery pack could really last your life time. At least that is what the new Lithiom Ion Phosphate batteries are achieving.

[Demick]

Granted I was hiting the highlights as posted on the Tesla sight... However, one thing I would like to point out is that the batteries will no way cost 30K per 100K miles. I can provide you with tons of documentation on this. There is only a 1% loss of capacity per 1000 charges. So in theory the battery pack could really last your life time. At least that is what the new Lithiom Ion Phosphate batteries are achieving.

From the Tesla site:

Li-Ion batteries are good for 500 complete charge/discharge cycles. One cycle consists of discharging the pack from 100% state of charge (SOC) to 0% SOC. Realistically, drivers will not completely discharge their pack. More likely, drivers will drive the car for 50 or 100 miles then plug it back in to charge it up to 100% SOC. Driving only 50 miles is only a partial discharge, roughly using 20% of the charge. If a driver continues to drive 50 miles every day and recharges every night, then after 5 days they would complete the equivalent of one charge/discharge cycle.

In estimating the life of our batteries, you can multiply the number of cycles by the range. Thus, 500 cycles times 250 miles/charge works out to 125,000 miles, but our estimate is a more conservative 100,000 miles. However the cycle life of 500 cycles is based upon performance that is more challenging to the battery cells than our application. We believe that our pampered batteries will achieve more cycles due to temperature control of the batteries and minimizing the maximum charge voltage.

[LarryR]

Granted I was hiting the highlights as posted on the Tesla sight... However, one thing I would like to point out is that the batteries will no way cost 30K per 100K miles. I can provide you with tons of documentation on this. There is only a 1% loss of capacity per 1000 charges. So in theory the battery pack could really last your life time. At least that is what the new Lithiom Ion Phosphate batteries are achieving.

From the Tesla site:

Li-Ion batteries are good for 500 complete charge/discharge cycles. One cycle consists of discharging the pack from 100% state of charge (SOC) to 0% SOC. Realistically, drivers will not completely discharge their pack. More likely, drivers will drive the car for 50 or 100 miles then plug it back in to charge it up to 100% SOC. Driving only 50 miles is only a partial discharge, roughly using 20% of the charge. If a driver continues to drive 50 miles every day and recharges every night, then after 5 days they would complete the equivalent of one charge/discharge cycle.

In estimating the life of our batteries, you can multiply the number of cycles by the range. Thus, 500 cycles times 250 miles/charge works out to 125,000 miles, but our estimate is a more conservative 100,000 miles. However the cycle life of 500 cycles is based upon performance that is more challenging to the battery cells than our application. We believe that our pampered batteries will achieve more cycles due to temperature control of the batteries and minimizing the maximum charge voltage.

I was actually looking at the saphion lithiom ion phosphate batteries... unfortunately each 12v battery is currently 1K per battery and you need about 18 or more dependening on the app:

http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp

[byndbad914]

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youtube smart car video

thanks for finding and posting that - as I stated, leg bone crumple zone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Just a little more front space on that other little POS helps (and really that vid is a testament to how amazing the safety technology is today!) but I would like to see a new Jetta sedan at that speed and slight angle on the concrete. I bet there would be virtually no intrusion.

I will agree that the passengers would probably die due to G-loads from instantaneous deceleration but one can extrapolate how much safer a larger car is in said situations, so a not so instantaneous decel might still leave you crippled in the smart and you open the door and walk away in a Jetta.

And they noted the higher Gs the passengers feel due to such a rigid structure - a lot of people overlook that. Still should come with a head and neck restraint hahah.

I will take my gas guzzling F150 anyday over that because I ain't takin' a knife to a gunfight if you catch my drift. Simple physics, big M v. little m and considering how poor our standards are in the US for handing out driver licenses I won't take my chances...

Because there is an idiot on the cell phone babbling instead of driving, not signaling cuz his hand is too busy holding that goddamn phone, and changing lanes out there somewhere as we speak looking to hit me or run me off the road into a barrier. Until that changes you won't find me in a little sh!tbox car anytime soon.

Midsize car with good crumple zones (Jetta, Fusion size), high-efficiency turbo diesel burning clean diesel fuels and hybrid with electric motor... now there is an idea that would generate good acceleration, very good mileage, etc and with better diesel fuels and emissions equip a very clean burn too. Figure out how to make that car for around $40K and I would buy that... and that combo should be around 100mpg easily and no extra electricity bill as the car charges itself.