Electronic Ignition, WHAT TO USE Options

[Brad Roberts]

Have you figured out a way to put the trigger points in the base of the Mallory ??


B

[thesey914]

The magnetic or optical trigger just supply the signal for the cd box to fire the coil. The trigger does nothing to improve spark.

I understand about the wear factor involved in points and they can bounce at high RMPs,
so magnetic or optical signals are preferable......but....how does the CD improve the spark quality, does it just give an amplified pulse to the coil?
Also how does it preserve the points ( I.E. no pitting ) when the signal travels from the points to the CD -seems like the CD is down-stream so has no input on the points....unless the CD draws less current leading to less burning of the points mating surfaces?
-J

[ArtechnikA]

....how does the CD improve the spark quality, does it just give an amplified pulse to the coil?
Also how does it preserve the points ( I.E. no pitting )

last point first. with a conventional Kettering ignition, -all- the spark energy is being switched by the points. a CD is only triggered by the points - the actual spark energy is generated in the CD unit with its own direct power connection. it is exactly like using a relay in a headlight circuit to isolate the switch from the full current of the lamp - except that it is much, much faster ...

so - there are several benefits to the CD's spark. since it can draw as much current as is needs without affecting points life, it can deliver much, much more energy to the spark. the coil in a Kettering ignition is an energy reservoir - it is charged with electricity when the points are closed, and when they open, the magnetic field created inside the coil collapses and an electrical pulse is created in the secondary side which fires the plugs. but it takes a relatively long time to charge a coil to full capacity, which is why 'dwell' (the amount of time, really, the points are closed) is so important.

capacitors are much more efficient energy storage devices, and they charge much, much faster, in part because they operate on voltages much higher than the 12V available to the Kettering coil, using a DC-DC power convertor found inside the unit (that's where the whine/whistle comes from).

they can also discharge their stored current much faster, so you have a precisely timed, high-energy spark with a very short rise-time that's excellent for firing a spark plug under harsh conditions.

that's the basic CD ignition - lots of energy from a direct power connection, places very little load on the trigger points, fast spark impulse.

as the systems improved over time, the "coil" had to change, because it changed its role from an energy-storage device to a true pulse transformer.

at this point, you can start adding doo-dads - if a CD ignition can recover so fast between sparks, maybe if one spark is good, more is better? enter the multiple-spark discharge type devices. since we now have electronics controlling the spark, we can measure the time between pulses and shut down the spark when the engine's running faster than desired - a rev-limiter function.

when you start sending huge amounts of energy into the spark plugs, you have to make sure all the high-tension stuff is up to snuff. (i had a non-Bosch dizzy rotor -explode- after just a few weeks' service with the MSD...) good cap and rotor, preferably Bosch, and good ignition wires. i like Magnecor because they work, the price is right, and (a sticky issue for 6-cyl cars...) the 911-style plug connectors actually fit.

[Mark Henry]

Has anyone tried the Gene Berg igniter on a type 4? It looks like a Honda coil and a small box but it uses points!

A customer has one on a type 1 bug, I took the points out after about a year and they did look like new.

Sorry I don't have a pic, but here's their sales pitch, link at the bottom.

Berg's Igniter Ignition

Bergs new electronic ignition. This new Berg Igniter Ignition system still utilizes the original distributor and points, however, the points now become a trigger. The points see only .4 ohms of resistance so they never burn and they never go away. You still have to grease the cam lobe of the distributor, but the points stay good forever. This new system offers 450 volts of power to the plugs and comes with everything you need to install it; coil, wiring harness and the brain. Get the power of the old Stinger systems with the convenience of the stock distributor (be careful and make sure you re-jet as needed). This conversion kit is used in conjunction with the Bosch 009 distributor. SW 4#

GB 624 Gene Berg Igniter ignition.


http://www.geneberg.com/elctrcpg10.htm

[Gint]

ArtechnikA Posted on Dec 6 2003, 05:47 AM
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QUOTE (thesey914 @ Dec 6 2003, 01:11 AM)
....how does the CD improve the spark quality, does it just give an amplified pulse to the coil?
Also how does it preserve the points ( I.E. no pitting )  

last point first. with a conventional Kettering ignition,  

Excellent write-up Rich. Thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mightyohm]

For the tach signals, can't you just connect the tach to the points wire where it goes into the CDI box, instead of using the tach output?

I did that on my 72 911 with an MSD-6A and it worked great. No tach adapter needed.

[Kargeek]

I'm running an old school Permatune CD- I know it's not a multiple spark type unit, but it works great and the tach hook up is simple. Adjusting points is no longer an issue so I don't care if I have an optical point replacement in the dizzy. The unit is small enoughf to mount under the relay board so everything looks stelthy in the engine compartment. It made a huge difference in driveability on my carbed engine. Dave H