Tip off for auction item at WCR, Megasquirt in a stock FI package Options

[jimkelly]

rotor thread

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=71732

this is all great stuff.

i plan to MSII my 1973 2.0 this summer - your timing could not be better!

Jim

PS - your transaxle rebuild thread was my guide - big help !!

[DNHunt]

I layed out the things that will be in the case. WBO2 board is on top, black MS version 3 board is underneath and I added a fuse block. There are connections for the o2 cable, a serial port and some LEDs to the left.



Here is the side facing the firewall. At the top are the LEDs for the WBO2, the serial port and the plug for the O2 cable on the bottom.



The cover is untouched



Dave

[pbanders]

Here is what I did with the MAP sensor. I'll hide it in the old MPS. First I gutted an old one.

Couple of comments on this conversion. Note that the MPS has a spring loaded bleed diaphragm over the inlet port, this is needed to damp the response of the mechanical MPS core. I would suggest that it be removed if a solid-state MAP sensor is used. Secondly, how are you sealing the MPS? Obviously, you don't need the full-load diaphragm section, and leaving it installed might lead to leaks if the diaphragm cracks. I'd suggest figuring out a solid, leak-free replacement for the entire full-load assembly (stop plate and diaphragm).

Great stuff. I have yet to buy a MS to play with. Does it provide any options for using an idle stabilizer?

[DNHunt]

Harness is done

[r_towle]

What type of auction is this?
I cant get out there, but I would sure like to call in during the bidding, or email, or proxy.
However it works, please give some details on the bidding for people that cannot attend.

Or, tell me how much you would charge me to make that for me.

Rich

[Jake Raby]

Dave,
I'd love to get my hands on that for a few days to gather some data from it!

[rick 918-S]

Dave,
I'd love to get my hands on that for a few days to gather some data from it!

I'd sure like to see the data you extract! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[DNHunt]

Brad

I gutted the MPS so it is vented to the outside air through the little slots in the MPS body.

Jake

There isn't much to it. I just hid all of the sensors in the stock packages. and made up a new wiring harness to to an MS II board hid in the old ECU case. Other than that it's just a hall effect sensor providing the tach input and the ignition IGBT on the MS board grounding the coil primary for ignition.

There are really only 2 issues. Phasing the rotor so the spark makes it back through the locked distributor to the right spark lead. With luck I have that right. And, deally with any noise in the signals.

Course I still have to get the board put together, install Old Smokie in the car as a tuning mule, tune it, document it and get it down to McMark. Needless to say, I'm not getting much done on my engine. One good thing is after I'm done with this I'll use Old Smokie to work through a conserative tune with my waste spark system so I'll have a good spot to start in September.

Dave

[McMark]

Dave, you might be able to get Jake to tune it in for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Matt Meyer]

How did you mount the MS brain in the D-Jet box. Yes I see the pictures but the devil is in the details.

Where are you going to put the resistors for the injectors?

[Jake Raby]

I'd really like to test it Vs. my EFI retrofit kit based on SDS electronics... ;-)

[DNHunt]

I doubt I can get it done, bugs worked, tuned, back to your place and out to the auction in SF by the middle of next month. Maybe whoever buys it will let you play with it. I would think that my MS II with EDIS would be pretty comparable with the SDS with crankfired ignition. Maybe you could compare those.

Dave

[Jake Raby]

Yeah, plus I don't have an engine in the works that would be complimentary to either of them for another 5 months- this is wild and crazy season in this neck of the woods..

If you want to build another one to sell later on down the road we might be able to work out a tentative plan..

MS is one of the only systems I don't have enough data from to really support.. I'd like to change that as I need to test the new CB Performance EFI system that comes out on June 1st and it's always easier to just swap ECUs and keep the throttle bodies and etc on the engine for back to back runs... The new dyno will make this testing much faster and easier than the Stuska.

[DNHunt]

Yeah, plus I don't have an engine in the works that would be complimentary to either of them for another 5 months- this is wild and crazy season in this neck of the woods..

If you want to build another one to sell later on down the road we might be able to work out a tentative plan..

MS is one of the only systems I don't have enough data from to really support.. I'd like to change that as I need to test the new CB Performance EFI system that comes out on June 1st and it's always easier to just swap ECUs and keep the throttle bodies and etc on the engine for back to back runs... The new dyno will make this testing much faster and easier than the Stuska.

My best advice to you Jake is stay away from MS. Here's why.

1) It is an experimental electronic gadget, and every bit of info put out by them says that. As a hobbyist I can accept that but, as soon as you as a businessman give advice about it on an engine you put yourself at risk. You accept risk indirectly for the way the guy put his kit together, installed it and other aspects of his tune beside what you gave him. Something goes wrong and the guy looks for someone to blame and your you know what has a bullseye on it. Sad but true.

2) There are just way too many configurations. You can't afford the time and money to learn it.

3) It attracts the low ballers. Many of the people that want to run it are attracted to it because it's cheap. I know how you feel about that.

I know that sounds harsh but, MS doesn't belong in a business like yours. I believe in it and I think you may appreciate what it can do as a system. Put a layer between MS and yourself. When customers ask about your engines and MS send them tell them they have to learn it themselves and if they use it they assume ALL of the risk. Then send them my way and I'll try to answer their questions. You may lose a customer or 2 but I bet you'll sleep better.

Dave

[Jake Raby]

Dave I certainly appreciate and value your post...

BUT the reason I wanted to test the system was to KNOW the differences between what it offers and what we offer. I love good hard facts and I want to know why the changes are present. When a potential customer asks me what the differences are between my cooling system and another I KNOW the differences because I hold the data- I want the same thing to happen when someone asks me about the differences between MS and our SDS arrangement.

At this stage we are the only company that makes ANY effort to understand the Type 4 engine in the big picture format and since I have direct data from 5 different EFI systems I need this one to complete the ring.

I also need to learn more about MS tuning and use the system to tune some of my most popular engine kit combos because more and more of my kit customers are using the MS based arrangement. Having tuning tables and etc are critical to supporting the kit later on just think of how you would have been relieved if I would have had some MS base maps to email you!

So, I'll never end up using this system on my complete engines, but I would like to have a unit nailed to the wall in the dyno lab ready to have leads attached for comparison and education sakes. I already have other units permenantly attached there, all I lack is Link and MS.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: May 22 2007, 09:22 AM

[DNHunt]

Jake

I suppose my advice was based on being in a profession where liability is a constant concern.

I certainly appreciate your desire for information and data and, I can see how testing MS would be good for a comparison. My concern is that you will get blamed for a problem when it really relates to what the guy did building and installing. I'm on my 3rd MS project and I've learned new stuff each time. I also read a lot on the MS board and there are a ton of mistakes made and short cuts taken in assembly. Do you really want to be included in that?

For example, suppose you give out an ignition table and the guy doesn't have the trigger offset right. Many of those guys never check the base timing so it could be way off. Or, worse, suppose you give out a fuel map and the guy has the too low of a RegFuel (a direct multiplier of the fuel map), it will be way too lean. Might he blame you for too lean a map?

Dave

[gregrobbins]

Jake, I have a built up MS ECU I would be happy to send you to test. I don't have a harness, but imagine you have all that you would need in the shop.

Let me know if you would like me to pop it in the mail for you.

[Jake Raby]

Greg, That would be great. Have you ran the unit at all as of yet??

Dave, Liability is always a concern for me, but what I learned over the years is the fact that I am gonna get blamed for everything anyway so what the hell!

I am close to being fed up with the retail aspect of this place......

[DNHunt]

Argh

Never again! There is just too much crap to figure out. Marrying wiring is no fun.



Not enough room



Dave

[DNHunt]

It runs. Everything works on the Stim.





Dave