OT: Go kart racing, Looking for some knowledge Options

[736conver]

Went go kart racing a couple of weekends ago and it was a blast. 10 laps of practice. Then two time trials of 10 laps and then the main feature at ten laps. I got stuck at the back of the pack for both time trials but was lucky enough to get some clean track to post some fast lap times. Ended up starting 3 on the grid for the feature and ended up with first place. WooHoo.


Had perma grin for the next two days.

Of course now I would like to get a kart and practice on some of the local tracks, and compete by next year. I have a chance to get a kart with a 18hp briggs and stratton world formula series engine on a coyote frame. Dont know anymore specifics then that. Dont know year, hours etc. I still have to go look at it. I figure the motor would need a rebuild, how much does that cost? He is asking around $1000 and says engine has few hours.

I realized this engine is little bigger then the 9 horse I used at the track but then again I thought the 9 horse sucked coming off a hairpin. Way too slow.

Any opinions/advice.

[wbergtho]

Would a 125cc shifter kart be in your price range? They offer alot more performance...but I do realize they cost a bunch more! I'm thinking of getting into the Go-Kart racing scene again myself! It is unbelievably fun!!!!!!!!!

[Dave_Darling]

See if you can scare up Nathan Breitling (sp?). He used to hang out on the BBS; he got pretty seriously into karting for a while. Not sure if he is still or not; he and Grant are running the Olyblau Six in time trials/DEs now.

--DD

[BKLA]

My son has been racing sprint karts for about seven years now. (He's 14).

The first thing you need to do is find out from the local tracks what classes (groups) are popular and what rules are run. Talk with competitors in the class you want to run about chassis, engines, setups etc.

The basics are these:

two types of engines - four stroke and two stroke

two types of classes - shifter and non-shifter

from there, it gets much more complicated. Each local track may have its own popular classes whether its animal, world, kt100, TAG, 80 shifter, 125 shifter.

Kart setup is important as is tire pressure. There are a number of books out there that will help with the basics. THey will also help with the selection of a used chassis and discuss what to look for and what to avoid.

TAG is very popular right now - locally (at the expense of the shifter classes) but the shifter classes are the most challenging (physically) and rewarding according to my son.

Nathan Breitling runs an 80cc shifter in the bay area.

Hope this helps....

[736conver]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm checking out some of the other local tracks this weekend.

[Heeltoe914]

I think the TAG is the way to go you are able to consentrate on driving and and to win takes more of a good to great driver than a deep pocket. My son and I did it for two+ years I loved it and had great fun. Spec is IMHO just as much fun as shifter, Racing is Racing once your in it the ruch is big.

BKLA gave some very good points to start with have fun

[andys]

Brian,

Do check out your local Karting scene, and attend some races. Walk the pits and ask lots of questions. The most popular classes should be your focus, but I would recommend you avoid getting in over your head. Many want to get directly into a 125 shifter, but it is a brutal machine and takes a fairly high level of skill and experience to be competitive.

I would suggest also that you attend a Kart racing school. It will get your feet wet in a legitimate racing Kart. It will help you decide if this is really what you want before spending money to buy something. On the West Coast, we have the Jim Hall Kart Racing School, arguably one of the best in the Nation, but there are many.

I ran Karts competitively for 25+ years. Fantastic racing, but it's the friendships I made over the years that I cherrish the most.

Andys

[WRX914]

Been in the karting scene for about 8 years and it is more fun than you can describe. I own two carts and I have a 125 shifter for sale. It is solid as hell... It is a DFM solid chrome frame from Italy with a essentially brand new Yamaha YZ125 engine that will flat out haul ass. It is the quickest kart I have ever been in, and will pull your hands off of the steering wheel effortlessly. If you are interested, I might be willing to sell it. The frame looks exactly like the one in my avatar. Top speed is somewhere in the 120-130mph depending how you gear it. The frame was recently stripped down and put on scales that revealed the frame is NOT bent or twisted in any way. I am thinking in the neighborhood of $5k which is a fantastic deal. It comes with Brembo's on the front and rear and this Yamaha engine is STRONG! It was originally built as a twin brother to my racing partners engine. He is about 240 lbs which is a huge disadvantage in the competitive world of racing. This Yamaha is so strong that he stays right with me on my ICC chassis (for those who don't know what I am talking about, ICC are the fastest 125's out there) on sprint tracks and on his good days, it is a bitch trying to fend him off and I only weigh 170lbs!!! I would put this Yamaha up against most any Honda's any day of the week. Lot's of totally custom parts built by one of the Yamaha GP motorcycle mechanics from California.


BTW - I raced Motocross for 5 years then got into shifters for the first time. Within 3 races, I was winning every race I entered and even got some magazine coverage from SKUSA (Shifter Kart USA) So while it may sound if I am bragging, I am just trying to show that if you got "the edge" it is not as difficult as you may think to win. It is dangerous as hell, but if you got the pin-it and win-it attitude you will probably do well. Just remember... smooth is fast.

TAG is an acronym for Touch and Go. They are electric start and require no shifting, they are fun. But for the ultimate drive, get a shifter. Selecting the right gear and hauling ass out of every turn just is bitchin as hell...

Keith

[carreraguy]

I am thinking in the neighborhood of $5k which is a fantastic deal.

My son had a KT100 and a 125cc shifter for a number of years and he and I had a blast campaigning them; great family activity. Keith, that does sound like a good deal to me!
Later,

[RoninEclipse2G]

my family runs vintage formula vees which are very similar in driving style to shifter karts, safer too, you can get into a running car for $2-3k. also a plus is the engine is a VW 1200 (usually stroked to a 1320) We run similar times to 80cc shifters on most tracks and depending on how you set your front toe they are less twitchy than most karts in the turns.

[andys]

Top speed is somewhere in the 120-130mph depending how you gear it. Keith

Keith,

Kudo's to your ability; Some certainly possess a gift, and you are likely that exception. Few can jump into a shifter and win right off, but occasionally it happpens.

At about 110MPH or so, a 125 situp kart basically hits a wall that's difficult to surpass. Way too much wind resistance. On a wide open course like Willow Springs or Fontana for example, my 125 laydown shifter could blow by the best of the best 125 situp shifters, and I was lucky to hit 130MPH (by gearing calc's and tach). I've helped plenty of 125 situp guys at the road courses, and their gearing was no where close to those kinds of speeds. Who BTW in California built your Yamaha motor?

Andys

[WRX914]

Alex Dicherry is the engine builder whom is now involved in Grad Prix racing. The speeds were taken in Denver at Second Creek speedway which were built for Indy cars. I raced here in Parump last year with Eddie Lawson who was in a 450 enduro cart, as long as I was in his draft, I could hit 140 on the straights. (Couldn't pull 6th gear on my own, but could in the draft). As soon as the curves came, I would pass him either on the high or low side whatever line he was not in I could fly by him in the curves. As soon as the straights came, you could hear him coming like a freight-train. As soon as he passed me, I would slide in his draft and he could not lose me. Racing with the 250 2-strokes and the 450 4 strokes, I came in third overall. Pretty respectable given I was giving up 125cc to the two strokers not to mention the 4 strokers AND no aerodynamic body in a field of 16.


Guys, this is the most fun on 4 wheels hands down! If you get the chance to drive a shifter, take it and make sure you bring a clean pair of underwear... You will prolly need em.

The 80 shifters in Denver were seeing speeds over 110 mph. Not alot of air there to slow you down. I don't know what the 80's are doing here in Vegas, but I would assume they are approaching 100mph.

Keith

[andys]

Keith,

I never ran @ Pahrump. Our local club made a couple of investigatory runs out there to see how dangerous/safe it was for karts, but I retired from racing just about that time. I actually started to build a SuperKart, but made a spontaneous decision and sold everything!

Did you run the short or long course at Pahrump with Eddie? A 125 shifter is nearly impossible to beat on the tighter courses; they're just too well developed and have a good balance of power for those kinds of tracks. So I assume Eddie is not running the 250 twin any longer? I remember when he first showed at The Streets of Willow back around 1989 along with Rick Johnson, Brock Glover and ??? with some 125's and 250's.

Too bad I no longer race. Would've been fin to run together! Guess I'm now in the old timers club but hey, I still managed to win a local shifter championship in 2002 at the age of 50.

Cheers,

Andys

[WRX914]

Andy,

We ran the upper course as the Superbikes were on the lower... The track owner was there that day and was shitting his pants at our times. The track workers were taking split times and when they realized how quick we were running they called him over to witness it himself. He was just standing by the track with his stopwatch in his hand grinning from ear to ear. Our race went without a hitch. The second race however did not go so well. A vet-racer lost control of his 250 and slid backwards into the tire barrier. He jacked up his back, and kidneys but was consious... About a hour later, he went into severe shock, had a stroke and needed to be flight-for-lifed back to Vegas. The track owner stopped the event right on the spot and the shifter-carts are no longer welcome at Parump. Yes, it is a shame, but things like this happen in extreme type sports.

I am knocking down the door of 40, so I say buy another chassis and lets go racing!!!

Keith (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)

[andys]

Keith,
Guess I'm now in the old timers club but hey, I still managed to win a local shifter championship in 2002 at the age of 50.

Cheers,

Andys

Bad math!!! I was 52 y/o in 2002!! Memory enhancing herbs perhaps??

The kart racing scene in SoCal is only a skeleton of what it once was, so I have no interest in racing against three other guys. It is basically dead. I come from an era when we would have a field of 80 karts in one class at Riverside Int'l. 400 entries for a race weekend was not uncommon. You really had to be on your game to even finish in the top 10 in those days!

The SuperKart would have been fun, but I think they're down to just Laguna Seca one time a year on the West Coast. That's just not enough racing for me short of traveling all over the US. Think I'll stay with something a bit more docile, like an LS1 V8/914.

Andys

[nebreitling]

DON'T buy the first kart you see. go to the track and watch a few races. talk to people about what classes are active and well-supported. TAG karts are really popular for good reason. hell, rotax engines go like 40 hours between rebuilds; leopards like 12... I don't know much about the briggs classes -- we don't run those out here.

a 125 shifter is a real handful, and unless you are truly gifted or in an uncompetitive region, you will get your ass kicked for a while until you come up to pace.

if you must shift (and i highly recommend it!), 80 shifter (I run 80 limited at 360 lbs) is a good balance between speed and an accessible "learning tool".

In any case, the maintanence costs can add up. I do a top-end rebuild every 90 minutes (slightly pumped up engine)... tires are about $180 a set, and last maybe 2 races (competitively) and another 4 practice days. I break shit all the time. You have to invest in special tools like chain breakers and bead breakers. Still, it's cheaper than racing cars, and it's unbelievably intense.

[andys]

DON'T buy the first kart you see. go to the track and watch a few races. talk to people about what classes are active and well-supported. TAG karts are really popular for good reason. hell, rotax engines go like 40 hours between rebuilds; leopards like 12... I don't know much about the briggs classes -- we don't run those out here.

a 125 shifter is a real handful, and unless you are truly gifted or in an uncompetitive region, you will get your ass kicked for a while until you come up to pace.

if you must shift (and i highly recommend it!), 80 shifter (I run 80 limited at 360 lbs) is a good balance between speed and an accessible "learning tool".

In any case, the maintanence costs can add up. I do a top-end rebuild every 90 minutes (slightly pumped up engine)... tires are about $180 a set, and last maybe 2 races (competitively) and another 4 practice days. I break shit all the time. You have to invest in special tools like chain breakers and bead breakers. Still, it's cheaper than racing cars, and it's unbelievably intense.

Godd advise. And to expand on that just a bit; take your time and see if you can find a deal like when I quit racing. Someone that's selling the kart with spares and tools, etc. You WILL NEED at least one full set of mounted wheels/tires, tire balancer, bead breaker, kart stand, air tank, gas can, a full set of tools (can be kart specific), plenty of spark plugs, brake pads, quality tire gauge, Ratio-Rite, lots of zip ties, driving suit/shoes/neck brace/current DOT helmet (whatever the rule book specifies), etc, etc. I'm sure I missed some obvious things, but you get the idea. A package deal will get you everything for 25 cents on the dollar.

Andys

[WRX914]

Oh yes, the expense. This is not a cheap weekend warrior hobby. The 80cc may be your ticket as to be competitive in the 125's you will need a set of tires every weekend, and they will pretty much be toasted by the end of the day. Maybe worth a practice or two... We would easily spend $250 a weekend with tires, entry-fees, race gas and oil and..........
I used to race pretty hard core in the Mountain SKUSA region with the likes of Brandon Scarberry, Ron White, Ace Cario, Ryan Bailey and such so it was no slouch gang of guys. My advise is to find the fastest guys in your region, hang with them on and off of the track they will teach you years worth of lessons in one or two seasons.

[Luke]

Love to get my son into it .. How is the safety been lately in carting ?..

I'm usually last to ask, but a buddy of mine had his brother killed in Europe about 10 years ago or so ..

He was the French / European champ in the "big dog" class .. and was being courted to step up into the WRC by the top teams ...
Last race in carting .. an exhibition race .. someone decided they could beat the champ at all cost ... they were some extraneous circumstances but at the end of the day he was dead ...

Make a long story short.. after his brothers death, he did a lot of checking .. and found at the time carting had a horrific injury rate ... worse than about any other form of racing ....

[nebreitling]

sprint racing is "pretty" safe, as your speeds are usually less than 70 mph. road racing can be significantly more risky. At triple digit speeds, when wheels touch, someone is going into flight.

still, in my 80cc I touch 76+mph at the end of the straight at the Infineon sprint kart track. the ICC's and pumped-up motos touch like 90...

bruised and broken ribs are the most common injuries (btdt, hurts like hell). Head and neck injuries are the most worrisome. Kids wear chest protectors. Everyone wears neck collars (though I'm dubious of their value); the best karting suits are abrasion resistant and feature armoured areas. I've been at it for about 8 months, and have yet to see a incident that resulted in serious injury. for kids, it's pretty safe.

at the upper echelons, you have to pick your poison (karts vs cars): would you rather be thrown from a wreck and tossed around like a limp ragdoll? or strapped into a caged car, unconcious, while flames ignite around you?