OT: looking to get a Golf TDI, any advice? Yea or nay? Options

[Jenny]

Below is a lovely cut n' paste from Brian.

Hi Everybody,
(....hi Dr Nick)

Jenny and I are considering buying a used VW Golf and wanted to get some feed back on some of the things we've been finding out. First of all we are interested in getting the TDI model which I'm well aware is slow as molassas. I like the TDI for a bunch of reasons but most of which is the better mileage and durability (we are also slightly green as our other car is a Prius and we just sold our other Prius). I believe the engine that we'd be looking at for a late model Golf would be the 1.9 L Turbo Diesel (manual transmission, which seems to be pretty rare but definitely in existence). I've been driving small cars my whole life so I'm not really affected by the cramped conditions (I'd prefer to have the Golf over the Jetta due to weight).

We are pretty much just going to use the car to get around town and as Jenny's daily driver.

My questions:

- Is the 1.9L TDI motor as is to be expected with most other Diesel motors (ie reliable, I'm expecting a life of 200-300k miles)?
- Is power (about 100 hp) sufficient for the chasis? We are used to pretty lack lustre acceleration in the Prius and in our 4cyl 4 runner. It looks like the curb weight is 2900 lbs which is about average for a compact car.
- VW has been advertising the safety of their cars, would this hold some what true for the Golf? It's smaller but should have a marginally comparable safety shell as the Jetta.
- Does anyone know anyone that runs them on biodiesel? Supposedly they are 100% ready to run, but I don't think any stations sell the real deal, maybe in Berkeley we can find a B5 mixture, but I don't think the US allows anything higher than B25 right now (and I believe it voids the warranty).
- Anything else that we should be weary of?

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions!!

TIA,

Jen

[914nerd]

For information on the engine and such, check out the TDIClub.com
We've got a Jetta ad it seems to work fine
Should be a long-lived engine (~500k if taken care of properly)
Power is enough to get you from A to B, but nothing amazing
Biodiesel is a possibility, but for the real stuff, you'll have to make your own

[Cap'n Krusty]

They can be easily tuned to provide a LOT of power, and ungodly amounts of torque. You may find it faster than the 2 litre gas Golfs. They're pretty quiet, and don't smell all that bad. As you know, they get 45-50 MPG all the time, not just around town like the Prius. They REQUIRE timing belt / water pump changes at 60K, no matter what the dealer says. They also suffer from power robbing carbon build up in the intake manifold, a time consuming, messy, but not too difficult repair. BTW, I'm looking for one for Lyn. As much as she loves her A6Q, 22 MPG just doesn't get it at 80 miles a day. FWIW, you'd probablynever notice the weight difference between the Golf and the Jetta. Diesels are more forgiving of weight than are gasoline cars. VW products are pretty "safe" in terms of occupant protection. The Cap'n

[mightyohm]

Hey Jenny,

I've been thinking about getting one too, now that I commute so far. The biggest barrier I have run into is that they are extremely overpriced in California, especially the bay area. The high purchase cost outweighs a lot of the fuel savings when you compare it to something like a Civic IMHO. Right now it is impossible to buy a brand new TDI in California so the prices are inflated. In a year or so that may change, so it is possible you would pay a lot of $$$ up front and then have the resale value plunge when new models are available again.

[davep]

We had two diesel Golfs, overlapping for several years. An 86 we bought new and an 85 that was used. They will cruise at 150 kph in the company of turbo Porsches no problem. A little noisey when starting, but you won't notice it at speed. Turbo diesel would be better than the non-turbos we had. More fun to drive than our 2000 civic that I would hesitate to take to 150 (it buzzes too much at 140). If my friend does go into biodiesel production, another diesel would be in my driveway again.

[swl]

What Jeff is saying sounds awful familiar. New emission standards for diesels - nobody is compliant - those that are around go up in price. MB has got the engine now that meets the new standard - marketed under the name blue tec - Chrysler will be putting it into their jeeps and small trucks. VW has licensed the technology but it may be a while before we see it.

I drove in a Jetta TDI recently. Didn't realize it was diesel until the guy dropped me off - just heard a slight clatter as he pulled away and sure enough there was a TDI nameplate on the machine. They really have done a good job on making these diesels civilized.

You get used to low power. It becomes second nature and is quite acceptable except when want to express yourself with your right foot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Really don't need to do that anyway right? Thats what the teener is for! The TDI has great low end torque so it feels spirited even if it is low on the HP. My DD is a 40hp turbo cdi in a 1700 lb car. It is actually quite quick and totally acceptable for commuting even on the freeway. Next to that the VW would feel like a race car.

Biodiesel is a really broad term that covers everything from used Mcdonalds frier oil to a full quality controlled fuel. If you see the Bxx then it is a fuel and should not have undesirable effects. Auto manufacturer will specify the max percentage for warranty purposes. Usually doesn't go above B85. The only problem with B85 is that it gels at a really high temp so it is not useful in the cold of winter up north here. Down in Cali there would be no problem running it year round. I can't think of any reason why B5+ wouldn't be allowed in the states. From the EPA point of view is supposed to produce less sulphur dioxide - I think less NO2 as well. If there is no B85 around it is probably more a question of market demand.

[911quest]

The only problem area's are MAF sensors glow plug harness and coolant sensors most drivabilty problems caome from the MAF ,restricted intake (like the Cap'n said) and dirty clogged fuel filters.

[swood]

I don't know too much about these and can't think if I've seen one in Cali. Are they legal to tag here? I just googled them a bit and sounds like a cool economical option.

[woobn8r]

I've seen several diesels with major carbon deposits (to the point of being plugged)...be sure if you buy one of these that your daily trips are long enough to get the thing warmed up....repeated short "cold" trips is like hardening of the arteries.....

[buck toenges]

I have 4 tdi's. 2 manual beetles, 1 '98 manual jetta and a 2001 4 door golf auto. I bought all of them with over 100k mileage. Maf problems were probably the most common problem but they cost about $98.00. Had one that needed new glow plugs. Other then that they are just sweet. How can any 914 driver call them slow? They have a really nice kick to them with all their torque. They all cost me about 6-7 thousand each. You get 40-50 mpg on the manuals about 38 on the auto. If I get an additional 100-150,000 miles out of them then it will be a real bargin. Tdiclub.com is like 914world.com for all those diesel fiends.

Man, I got to tell you I get a bigger grin from getting 45mpg then I get from my 3.2 914. That being said I am finishing up a '72 1.7 914 so I can get 30+ mpg so I can have a convertible for the summer.
Buck

[ottox914]

Don't know this from any personal experience, but from what I hear from some other oil burner friends is that the new low sulfur fuels can mess with the seals on the injector pumps, requiring a re-build with newer, better seals. Don't know how serious of a deal this is, but the stations around me all have stickers on the diesel pumps saying that if you use this fuel in a pre 2007 diesel motor, they'll not cover you for any engine problems that develop. Apparently the sulfur content in diesel is not so far removed from the lead in leaded fuels, in that it functions as a sort of lubricant in the fuel system. Take that away from a system that was designed to use it, and who knows how long things will last.

[horizontally-opposed]

Jenny,

You'll be surprised by the torque. Once you tune into how to use it (not hard) those TDIs are surprisingly quick in urban situations, even in stock trim.

So, I dig 'em! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Only thing that causes me pause with the late-model VWs is the electrical systems. Seems to be a total hit and miss, with good cars and bad cars. I guess you could try to get records and see if it's a lemon! Better yet, see if a dealer can bring its history up before you buy.

pete

[mudfoot76]

Only thing that causes me pause with the late-model VWs is the electrical systems. Seems to be a total hit and miss, with good cars and bad cars. I guess you could try to get records and see if it's a lemon! Better yet, see if a dealer can bring its history up before you buy.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

For my last car purchase, I had narrowed the field down to a TDI Jetta 5spd and my MINI Cooper S (superego VS id). The local VW shop actually let me take a brand new tdi jetta 5sp home for the weekend. Even when "cold", they don't clatter very much, and I was really impressed with the torque. TDIclub has many great things to say about the motors, but other sites featured numerous complaints about the fit and finish of the rest of the car (esp. electrics). Everything was great in brand new trim, but I wasn't sure how well it would age. When optioned the way I wanted, it cost the same as my Cooper S and I found the MINI to be much more fun to drive on a daily basis.

[swl]

Don't know this from any personal experience, but from what I hear from some other oil burner friends is that the new low sulfur fuels can mess with the seals on the injector pumps, requiring a re-build with newer, better seals. Don't know how serious of a deal this is, but the stations around me all have stickers on the diesel pumps saying that if you use this fuel in a pre 2007 diesel motor, they'll not cover you for any engine problems that develop. Apparently the sulfur content in diesel is not so far removed from the lead in leaded fuels, in that it functions as a sort of lubricant in the fuel system. Take that away from a system that was designed to use it, and who knows how long things will last.

Interesting. Try googling "diesel low sulphur lubrication". There is a lot of info out there from reliable sources. The wikepdeia entry is particularly good. The sulphur itself is not the lubricant but the process to remove the sulphur also removes some of the natural lubricants. The ULSD is supposed to have additives to replace the natural lubricants. I would run away from a pump that was displaying that disclaimer. BTW the articles pointed to the lubrication being an issue for the fuel pump not the engine itself. Also the seals are a definite issue but it looks like the better material has been in use since about 1990. When in doubt check with the car manufacturer.

[Jenny]

thanks for all the responses and good advice guys! Brian and I will sit down and mull over our options tonight. I'll keep you guys posted. In the meantime, I'm enjoying mashing around town in the 914.

Thanks again!

Jen

[anthony]

Why did you get rid of the other Prius you had?

How are VW TDI cars on particulate emissions? If you want to be "green" a diesel may not be the best choice.

[Jenny]

we got greedy and bought the new prius thinking we'd apply for the carpool sticker, and once we got it, we'd sell the old Prius and Brian would drive the new one to work. Turns out they ran out of stickers. So there we were, a stickerless Prius, with our thumbs up our asses, and a $1200 monthly payment. It wasn't worth it. So we passed it on to somebody else. I do miss the $25 fill-ups, and that nifty backup camera...

-Jen

[anthony]

When do the hybrid stickers expire? End of 2007 or 2008?

Here's the new TDI Jetta. It's rated at 40/60mpg and will be available in CA.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/08/diesel-...al-fuel-sipper/