TIRES, Tires, tires, what boots ya got on... Options

[woobn8r]

Wow! what a range...just looking at overall diameter these set ups range from 25" (195/65R15) through 23" (205/50R15)....185/70R15 is an odd size that is over 25.7"...maybe 185/70R14...a very popular size....only 24.7"...others 205/55R15 at 23.9"....205/60R15...24.7"...225/50R15...24".

Anyone know the original tire size? Then I can get the original diameter....

I work in the tire industry but, we don't make an ultra high performance in the size I was looking for...but I wouldn't use many of those "bargain" brands...because in my experience you mostly get what you pay for...The V700 is a special case as Kumho made BFG TA R1s for Michelin...and they "borrowed" the technology.....

I have raced for 15 years and tested with our tire company so I know what I want in a tire....I used to race on Yokohama 008Rs and they were awesome...I didn't think they were still made...A032R is not as good!...Yokohama product is usually decent stuff...you just have to know which sacrifices they have made with each model...

Great to hear your applications...keep 'em comin"

Sean

[ws91420]

165/sr15 whiich equates to a 165 82 15 in modern tire speak

[horizontally-opposed]

I have tested a lot of tires. Too many to count.

I have traditionally been a big fan of Yokohama products. Had A008RS IIs long ago and they were AMAZING. Loved the AVS Intermediate and went through several sets on my Merkur XR4Ti back in the day. A switch to Nittos (in the 2000 time frame) literally killed the joy of driving that car after the AVS Inters....

Last year, I autocrossed and then raced W-2-W on A032s and loved them, and I also love the Advan Neova.

But the ES100s are junk. Had them on my WRX and have them on my 914 and while they offer *okay* grip, noise, and treadwear, the big problem is that they are greasy in the wet and ultimately unpredictable, probably due to the squared off shoulder design (no rounded transition from tread to sidewall, just an edge). I will NEVER buy these tires again... a rare mis-step for Yoko.

Maybe I'm being too harsh... but they're not great tires IMHO. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

If someone wants a half-worn set for free (and isn't in a hurry), PM me. I'll be too all too happy to pass them on when I get the Vredesteins.

As for the Korean brands, I can't speak to the Hankooks, but the Kumhos impressed me years ago on a 993. Then I saw Mueller's thread on how a Kumho sidewall failed and nearly killed his wife and him and ended up wreaking havoc on their 964. BIG damage. I was ready to chalk it up to chance.. until just one week later an co-worker had a freeway-speed sidewall failure with the same tires that looked IDENTICAL to the pics in Mueller's post -- as if someone had taken a razor blade all the way around the tire where the sidewall meets the tread.

I guess someone can tell me that this is vivid example instead of statistics all day long, but the fact that many of these Korean tires use a single-ply sidewall (even Yoko's cheapie ES100 has a two-ply sidewall...) is enough for me.


Finally, my dear friend Pat, Vredestein is only obscure here in the U.S. In Europe, and Nordic countries in particular, Vredesteins are revered. Alois Ruf instantly knew about the Sprint Classics when I mentioned them last year...

After driving the 916 on 185/70 Sprint Classics, I fully undertand why. The fact the Vreds look period-correct and retain the correct overall diameter while being a modern tire in terms of compounding and grip AND cost 1/3 of the archaic Michelin XWX repros available through Coker make them all the more attractive to me....

Can't wait to try 'em! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

pete

P.S. Oh yeah: Aaron, you're still my hero, even if you like ES100s... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[grantsfo]

Wow! what a range...just looking at overall diameter these set ups range from 25" (195/65R15) through 23" (205/50R15)....185/70R15 is an odd size that is over 25.7"...maybe 185/70R14...a very popular size....only 24.7"...others 205/55R15 at 23.9"....205/60R15...24.7"...225/50R15...24".

Anyone know the original tire size? Then I can get the original diameter....

I work in the tire industry but, we don't make an ultra high performance in the size I was looking for...but I wouldn't use many of those "bargain" brands...because in my experience you mostly get what you pay for...The V700 is a special case as Kumho made BFG TA R1s for Michelin...and they "borrowed" the technology.....

I have raced for 15 years and tested with our tire company so I know what I want in a tire....I used to race on Yokohama 008Rs and they were awesome...I didn't think they were still made...A032R is not as good!...Yokohama product is usually decent stuff...you just have to know which sacrifices they have made with each model...

Great to hear your applications...keep 'em comin"

Sean

I drive a ton of miles on expesive to cheap tires. Hankooks are far better tire than price indicates. I have never been impressed with Yokos.

[Aaron Cox]

P.S. Oh yeah: Aaron, you're still my hero, even if you like ES100s... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

come to think of it... clayton owes me rent money for living in my shadow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif)

[grantsfo]

I guess someone can tell me that this is vivid example instead of statistics all day long, but the fact that many of these Korean tires use a single-ply sidewall (even Yoko's cheapie ES100 has a two-ply sidewall...) is enough for me.

The Hankook tire we are speaking about has 2 ply sidewall. I have never been impressed with Kuhmo's street tires, however their DOT R tires are top notch.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: May 11 2007, 08:52 AM

[woobn8r]

165/sr15 whiich equates to a 165 82 15 in modern tire speak

My industry spec book says that a 165SR15 can be replaced with the following...
P165/80R15, P195/75R15, 205/75R15, P185/70R15, P195/60R15, 195/60R15, P205/55R15, 205/55R15...and some others...

So the target diameter is 23.9" (call it 24") if you want to retain factory gearing...
I've never had a problem with a substitute tire up to an inch difference so that explains the performance guys at 23"(205/50R15) for bottom end and the touring guys at 25" (195/65R15) for ride and fuel economy.

We know that narrow body cars mostly fit 205s without major issues...and from what I gather the GT flares run on anything from 225s to 245s...but it's hard to know how much each car is flared if it is not factory...I suppose a 225/50R15 would be a good starting point...the best tire in that range is the BFG g-force T/A KD....But I could never run Michelins...(BFG is Michelin)... the next best IMHO is the Yokohama A022A....in 16 inch I'm back to the 225/45R16 Yokohama A048...at 23.8"....

I didn't want to get into brand bashing as many manufacturers make at least one good tire...Years ago I raced on Yoko 008Rs and 008RsII which I loved...You really cant go too far wrong with a Michelin, Bridgestone (Two largest tire companies) a Yokohama or a Toyo (Quality second tier niche manufacturers) and even Good Year makes some decent tires (F1, GSC)....as I mentioned Kumhos V700 is really a Michelin/BFG with a different sidewall....Hoosier make some great competition tires, but their General/Continental family is somewhat lacking for the enthusiast.

I was sponsored by Hankook for a year but resigned (and gave them back 8 sets of tires) as I found they were a street only...and no performance at that...tire that looked the part but thats it.

I personally stay away from all those obscure brands that spend their money on some marketing to the kids and not on R & D. Also some old and respected names ie. Dunlop (owned by Good Year) and Pirelli really dont have the dollars spent to put them at the top of performance (although Pirelli has a very modern assembly plant and could take it up a notch).

In the end alot depends on your use for the tires...if they need to look good...and your a stereo guy or a "drifter" maybe Nankang or Falkin is the ticket....if you auto X maybe it's the Hoosiers...but I plan to drive my car on the street and the track...I don't need every 10th because i retired from racing a while ago, but, I won't put up with crap....so I'd like to put on Bridgestones....since they don't make my size the Yokos will have to do.....

I still don't understand why people skimp on tires for their 914 when it's the single most important factor in ride/performance/noise....oh well....

I'd still like to hear what your 914s are wearing this season...

[horizontally-opposed]

I guess someone can tell me that this is vivid example instead of statistics all day long, but the fact that many of these Korean tires use a single-ply sidewall (even Yoko's cheapie ES100 has a two-ply sidewall...) is enough for me.

The Hankook tire we are speaking about has 2 ply sidewall. I have never been impressed with Kuhmo's street tires, however their DOT R tires are top notch.

Good to know!

Thanks Grant...

[r_towle]

CURRENT:
Yokohama ES100 205/55R15 on Fuchs five-lug 15x6 "Deep Sixes"

Wheels are great, ES100 tires are AWFUL, both dynamically and visually! (my opinion)

pete

wow... i have never heard a bad review for those tires. I LOVE my set! scared myself in the frigid cold once (they are called "ultra high performance SUMMER tires" - for a reason i guess)

they stick like glue when warm, make a little noise, and wear really well. and they sorta look cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

GREAT street stickies in my experience.

just a rebuttal for pete's sake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif)

I second Pete's opinion.
I like the looks.
They suck for traction.
Anything under 50, they dont hold at all.
Rich

[iamchappy]

I think size makes a difference with the ES100's, I am running 245/45/16's on the rear which I believe are made with a firmer sidewall, and 225/50/16's up front.
I would have to be driving very dangerous and extreme on the streets to find the limits on these tires. They do tend to wander at times with road conditions, but for the price I dont think there a bad tire. Hankook , Toyos or Fuzions I might try next for a budget tire after the ES100's are finally shot.

[horizontally-opposed]

I think size makes a difference with the ES100's, I am running 245/45/16's on the rear which I believe are made with a firmer sidewall, and 225/50/16's up front.
I would have to be driving very dangerous and extreme on the streets to find the limits on these tires. They do tend to wander at times with road conditions, but for the price I dont think there a bad tire. Hankook , Toyos or Fuzions I might try next for a budget tire after the ES100's are finally shot.

Good point! Bridgestones vary GREATLY in terms of quality from size to size, the RE92 is a great example. They must cast the 16-inch RE92s for the Subarus with the wheels as a one-piece setup. But the 17-inch RE92s are actually pretty nice.

However, my complaint with the ES100 has less to do with grip than feel. With that square shoulder (my theory) you don't get good feedback as you progress toward the limit. Again, this is only my opinion.

There are a lot of happy ES100 customers out there...

pete

[iamchappy]

I agree they do not squeal...

[grantsfo]

Getting back to original question. I have GT flares. I run 16x8 front wheels with Kuhmo 710 225/50/16 and 16x9 in rear with 265/45/16 in rear. Very potent combo for DOT R tire setup once tires are warm. Cant recommend this height tire with standard ratio gearing - works much better with MSX combo.

This setup is a little tall, this is good for the track as I have a real hard time overheating the 710's which impresses me since they are more of an AX tire, conversley AX can be a challenge as they dont warmup quickly enough on cold days. Best attribute of these tires are that they are very predictable when they are warm and they last forever for a DOT R slick.

[woobn8r]

I think size makes a difference with the ES100's, I am running 245/45/16's on the rear which I believe are made with a firmer sidewall, and 225/50/16's up front.
I would have to be driving very dangerous and extreme on the streets to find the limits on these tires. They do tend to wander at times with road conditions, but for the price I dont think there a bad tire. Hankook , Toyos or Fuzions I might try next for a budget tire after the ES100's are finally shot.

Good point! Bridgestones vary GREATLY in terms of quality from size to size, the RE92 is a great example. They must cast the 16-inch RE92s for the Subarus with the wheels as a one-piece setup. But the 17-inch RE92s are actually pretty nice.

However, my complaint with the ES100 has less to do with grip than feel. With that square shoulder (my theory) you don't get good feedback as you progress toward the limit. Again, this is only my opinion.

There are a lot of happy ES100 customers out there...

pete

Actually the RE92 is an OLD, old tire design that now fills an OE role and a replacement market spot....the 17 inch is a new product line addition...as back in the day nobody had 17 inch tires...(on cars anyways)...so it actually has the benefit of newer casing technology....the RE92 was quite a performance tire when it was launched...it has stood the test of time to be a decent OE tire compared to other "mom and pop" tires of today...so they still make it. Don't confuse quality and design...I'll bet both those RE92s balance nice with little weight.

Iamchappy; The sidewall flex between the 245/45R16 and he 225/50R16 is different as the sidewalls are about an inch different in height....with similar casing construction.

[i love porsche]

for my 924 i run kumho ecsta MX's 205/50/15 all around for the street, i really like them, ive heard bad things about the cheap kumho's..but so far from my experience this tire is awesome. for the track wheels on the 924 i run hankook ventus z-211, 225/50/15, i just scrubbed them in last event..so i really dont know too much about how they will perform..but the price was right!

[Downunderman]

On the teener Dunlop DZ02G in 195/55/15 on 15x7 rims, but I have had a DZ03G 205/50/15 fitted up and will be confirming that I can get it under the rear later this morning.

On the Honda Euro, some 17" Bridgestone things which are pretty good. This car is so good that after driving it for 2 and a bit years i've got bored with it. The options presently are: Ford Focus XR5 (2.5 turbo 6 speed), Volvo C30 (same 2.5 turbo 6 speed, funky shape and less doors) or Golf GTI (2.0 turbo and 6 speed DSG). Then again I might just wash the Honda.