FI retrofit, it's done!!! Options

[toon1]

Good info.are you going 13:1 accross the board.

What EGT's are normal for these motors?

[JeffBowlsby]

I thought Dave Hunts problems mostly related to MS inability to properly deal with fuel metering during deceleration?

Unfortunately, stock 914 FI harnesses are not capable of being used for these PEFI systems even with significant modifications. The circuitry requirements are completely different.

I completely concur with most of Jakes points, SDS is a great solution for most 914 owners and I would choose it over MS anyday. But please, keep it simple...most 914 owners just need a simple D-jet/L-jet replacement, which does not require ignition control. Fuel-only is sufficient, the more complex, the more that can break. Only get ingition control if it is a necessity.

SDS is to be commended for providing a basic harness, but their harness is not a very good solution for the 914s engine bay layout or for long-term serviceability. Plan to spend a significant amount of time/budget on the harness design and fabrication if you want a durable and reliable installation. Think about an optimum 914 engine bay layout, EMI-issues/grounding/shielding, durable connections, and protecting the wires and connections form heat and contamination.

[toon1]

With the ignition system that the 914 provides, I feel that you can do NO wrong by changing it.

With the EDIS system being so avail., robust and proven, it's hard to argue against a retrofit.

Just my .02

[p914]

I tried using high impedence injectors from a 89 vanagon 2.1 and they seemed to strangle the system. It needed to be tuned too rich all the time. I switched back to stock injectors and now have the mixture in the dead center of lean and rich to tune, also better idle as well as smoother running through the spectrum. I'm using the SDS EM4. My mechanic likes it because it's infinitely tunable. He's going to take it to the dynojet in the next week or so to make fine tunings throughout the range. I liked the idea of using high impedence injectors also but the flow just wasn't good enough.

[Jake Raby]

Were you using the low impedence resistor pack with these injectors??? If so that was the issue!

[p914]

Were you using the low impedence resistor pack with these injectors??? If so that was the issue!

Nope, it was wired correctly. Added the resistor pack after putting the original injectors back in. i do have a set of 4 of the vanagon injectors if anyone needs any. 0280 150 206

[toon1]

I tried using high impedence injectors from a 89 vanagon 2.1 and they seemed to strangle the system. It needed to be tuned too rich all the time. I switched back to stock injectors and now have the mixture in the dead center of lean and rich to tune, also better idle as well as smoother running through the spectrum. I'm using the SDS EM4. My mechanic likes it because it's infinitely tunable. He's going to take it to the dynojet in the next week or so to make fine tunings throughout the range. I liked the idea of using high impedence injectors also but the flow just wasn't good enough.

That's a weird one.

One inj. you have to add imp.

The other is built in

There should be no diffrence in hoe the inj. or the system functions.

Hey! if it's working ,that's a good thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Jake, what are you AFR's when you start to tune? Is it 13:1 accross the board?

What are good EGT's.

[ottox914]

SDS is to be commended for providing a basic harness, but their harness is not a very good solution for the 914s engine bay layout or for long-term serviceability. Plan to spend a significant amount of time/budget on the harness design and fabrication if you want a durable and reliable installation. Think about an optimum 914 engine bay layout, EMI-issues/grounding/shielding, durable connections, and protecting the wires and connections form heat and contamination.

See my sig for linky to my SDS install. I have had no harness issues in a year of auto crossing. I mounted the SDS "brain" in the back trunk, and drilled a hole to run the wires. I ran all the ECU related wires, as well as fuel lines, across the back wall of the engine compartment. The coil pack is mounted on the front wall of the engine area. The plug wires do not cross any of the sensor or injector wires. The wires to the coil pac run along the engine tin on the battery side of the engine room. I sent several diagrams and talked with the guys at SDS several times to lay this out prior to ordering the system, and have been nothing but satisfied with the purchase.

Here is the SDS project link, the one below is for the turbo upgrade.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=53733&hl=

Enjoy.

[Jake Raby]

I have never had an SDS harness issue either.. The harness in my 912E has been installed and used for almost 4 years(70K miles) and the system hasn't been touched.

I trusted SDS and their harness enough to be the base of my Pinzgauer EFI retrofit arrangement that I have recently completed (thank god!).

This system belongs on the below pictured Swiss Army vehicle with it's 2.5L inline 4 cylinder AIRCOOLED engine.
(IMG:http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/galleries/Pinzgauer/slides/101_0072.jpg)

And I have no problem submerging the SDS harness to prove it's integrity. More than likely that will be happening this weekend!!

(IMG:http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/galleries/pinzdyno/RAT%20plenum%20013.jpg)

[DNHunt]

Ah yes, I remember that beast.

Dave

[JmuRiz]

From looking at Jake and David Parsons' projects I wish I knew how to rig one of these systems up, I'd have the 914 and my 280C running on SDS FI. Alas I know nada about such systems...maybe someday.

Hmmmm, a turbo 280C sure would be cool....

[ottox914]

Its not that hard, read things over 100 times, know it like the back of your hand, then start ripping and re-doing. If you've done it 100 times over in your mind, it'll go much better in the real world. And then you'll STILL find better ways to do some parts of the project once you get your hands dirty.

[Jake Raby]

Looks like an EFI workshop is in order, or perhaps a video....

Can do!

[blitZ]

Looks like an EFI workshop is in order, or perhaps a video....

Can do!

That would be great. This is something I would like to do, but reading these posts and the MS/SDS installation instructions it's still a little blurry.

[ottox914]

Whats out of focus for you?

[Jake Raby]

This sytatement from SDS' web page is perfect... I love these guys because they hate bullshit as much as I do, and they are up front!

Should I Buy This System?

While we believe that our system is the simplest on the market to install and program, it is still beyond some people's capabilities. This is not a magic bullet that will solve all of your problems without any work. Have realistic expectations and goals for your project. We get many people contacting us saying that they intend to have a streetable 10 second car that gets great fuel economy and idles like a watch. This probably will not happen in reality.

"Evaluate your skills and knowledge. Installation of the E and F systems in particular, involve some custom fabrication to install the crank trigger system. Do you have the tools and knowledge to successfully complete this aspect? After installation, you must program the system properly. Even though we supply very complete instruction manuals, if you have no idea about the concepts of rich and lean, basic EFI theory or ignition timing requirements then you will probably not be able to program the system properly. We suggest that you explore our Tech Page and Manuals online thoroughly to gain as much understanding of basic theory and the system as possible before you decide to buy. If things seem way over your head after this, our system may not be for you. You will need patience and understanding to be successful with our system. There is a learning curve with all systems, including SDS. Be prepared to spend some time understanding the various parameters and what effect they have. We will not BS you and tell you that SDS is the best system for EVERY application. It isn't. You need to get all the facts and decide for yourself."

Read more here
http://www.sdsefi.com/adv.htm

[ottox914]

Its not that hard, read things over 100 times, know it like the back of your hand, then start ripping and re-doing. If you've done it 100 times over in your mind, it'll go much better in the real world. And then you'll STILL find better ways to do some parts of the project once you get your hands dirty.

I can't believe I just quoted myself... but its true, read it, learn it, live it, love it, then DO IT!

This CAN be done by the average shade tree mechanic, but you need to be willing to invest the time to learn how and why things work the way they do. You don't need to understand the programming of how the SDS system crunches the input signals to determine how much fuel to squirt, but you DO need to have a feel and understanding of whats going on with your motor, and how the changes you make will affect it.

I'm not the most computer literate person on the planet, and I have learned when someone says "its plug and play, its just that easy!" it won't be.

The SDS guys hide nothing, make only promises they can keep, and make things as easy as they can short of doing it all for you. Your success or failure is up to you.

[blitZ]

I know my current Djet injectors are triggered by the distributor FI trigger points. What triggers the SDS injectors to fire?

[Jake Raby]

SDS uses signal from the negative side of the coil to batch fire the injectors in the EM4D systems that use a dizzy.

All my turnkey engines use the 4F systems with direct ignition, this system uses magnetic signal from the crank to batch fire the injectors...

[Ray Warren]

Its not that hard, read things over 100 times, know it like the back of your hand, then start ripping and re-doing. If you've done it 100 times over in your mind, it'll go much better in the real world. And then you'll STILL find better ways to do some parts of the project once you get your hands dirty.

I can't believe I just quoted myself... but its true, read it, learn it, live it, love it, then DO IT!

This CAN be done by the average shade tree mechanic, but you need to be willing to invest the time to learn how and why things work the way they do. You don't need to understand the programming of how the SDS system crunches the input signals to determine how much fuel to squirt, but you DO need to have a feel and understanding of whats going on with your motor, and how the changes you make will affect it.

I'm not the most computer literate person on the planet, and I have learned when someone says "its plug and play, its just that easy!" it won't be.

The SDS guys hide nothing, make only promises they can keep, and make things as easy as they can short of doing it all for you. Your success or failure is up to you.

This pretty much describes me and what I did.
I installed one (fuel only) about 2 years ago. Car starts, runs and drives great.