Winning a Concours: Available Products, Will the heavies weigh in and spill their secret favs? Options

[orthobiz]

Hey, it's concours season and with Jafsmith's major score under his belt I feel it's time to ask:

Glycerine on rubber? How is it used?
Ritz Cloth on windows?
Back To Black on rubber?
Polish, buff, and shine?
Vinyl care?
How about wheelwells? Can I use Formula 409?

Back in my last 914 incarnation, in the 80's, the hot product was P21S for wheels. Anything knock it off its throne? How about NoTouch spray on tires?

Would the weenies and winners please list some of their favorite tips and products for the best looking original 914 finish?

Thanks!

Paul

And can you seriously use peanut butter on the rubber seals? Do you ever close the hood again??? (Was that tongue in cheek???)

A nod to Miss America: do you use vaseline on your teeth when you smile for the judges? Prep H on your sagging bags under your eyes after an all night cleaning session? Nah, I don't really want to know....

[Pat Garvey]

Hey, it's concours season and with Jafsmith's major score under his belt I feel it's time to ask:

Glycerine on rubber? How is it used?
Ritz Cloth on windows?
Back To Black on rubber?
Polish, buff, and shine?
Vinyl care?
How about wheelwells? Can I use Formula 409?

Back in my last 914 incarnation, in the 80's, the hot product was P21S for wheels. Anything knock it off its throne? How about NoTouch spray on tires?

Would the weenies and winners please list some of their favorite tips and products for the best looking original 914 finish?

Thanks!

Paul

And can you seriously use peanut butter on the rubber seals? Do you ever close the hood again??? (Was that tongue in cheek???)

A nod to Miss America: do you use vaseline on your teeth when you smile for the judges? Prep H on your sagging bags under your eyes after an all night cleaning session? Nah, I don't really want to know....

Paul,
EXCELLENT POST! Although the Miss America post is strange. But, working in retailing, I've had many women who come in for PrepH for the bags - apparently it works!
Now, as many of you know, I've expounded on my "personal" products of preparation. But, I'm an old-timer. Used up. No longer good for contemporary concours tools. On death's edge. Used up - oh yeah, i already said that! Caput! No longer able to clean a wheel well, whatever that is.
So...let's hear from Jafsmith, the back-to-back winner. Whatcha got to add James?
Pat

[Johny Blackstain]

I'm no heavy, just a loud mouthed & opinionated rookie, but I know peanut butter works. Have fun waxing your car & get that wax all over the black rubber. Watch it turn white over the next few days & smile- cause creamy peanut butter will eat that crap right off.


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[Pat Garvey]

I'm no heavy, just a loud mouthed & opinionated rookie, but I know peanut butter works. Have fun waxing your car & get that wax all over the black rubber. Watch it turn white over the next few days & smile- cause creamy peanut butter will eat that crap right off.


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Mr. Peanut Butter,
I admit, I have never tried peanut butter (for this application), but there IS (I think) a better way to wax your 914, as well as treat the rubber. I'm going to get lengthy again, but can't help myself.

Step One: Get the car ready for waxing - and this will seem extreme, but the cleanup is minimal. Take off the mirror, wiper arms, side markers, tail lenses, rear trunk lock, 914 insignia and the bumpers & tops! You should also mask off the lower sail panel trim (if you have it) and the door handles. If you have a Porsche insignia on th front lid (which is bogus), take that off too. You want all surfaces clean for polishing. Wouldn't hurt to pull the side window wiper from they're channels too. Also wouldn't hurt to tape off the lower & side windshield trim pieces - you'll just need to toothbrush off the wax later is you don't.

Anyone inetersted in step 2?
Pat

[orthobiz]

More like step "2.1," like, what about removing the oxidized finish. My car has probably not been waxed in years and needs to have the original paint brought forward a bit...

Paul

[Eric_Shea]

but I know peanut butter works

Not the damn peanut butter again... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

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[Pat Garvey]

More like step "2.1," like, what about removing the oxidized finish. My car has probably not been waxed in years and needs to have the original paint brought forward a bit...

Paul

I had my 914 repainted in 79, with 2-stage paint on the exterior & door jambs, so I'm not much help on oxidation. I did ask the painter to not paint the engine lid, but match the level of orange peel to the rest of the car. Haven't had much oxidation on the lid, but I do give it a "light" treatment of diluted compound (by hand) every couple of years, followed by Zymol (my wax of choice).

But, compounding an entire 914? Not my area of expertise.

Someone out there to offer advice?

[smg914]

More like step "2.1," like, what about removing the oxidized finish. My car has probably not been waxed in years and needs to have the original paint brought forward a bit...

Paul

Hi Paul,
You'll see amazing results using 3M Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad Glaze which is best to be used with an electric buffer. There is one for Light colors #39109 and one for Dark colors #39009. Removes very fine scratches, swirl marks, light oxidation or minor stains and producs a deep, rich, swirl-free finish. I also recommend using the 3M Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad #05725 to apply it. NAPA sells all these products. Follow this up with your favorite Polish and then Wax.
Steve

[orthobiz]

Hi Paul,
You'll see amazing results using 3M Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad Glaze which is best to be used with an electric buffer. There is one for Light colors #39109 and one for Dark colors #39009. Removes very fine scratches, swirl marks, light oxidation or minor stains and producs a deep, rich, swirl-free finish. I also recommend using the 3M Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad #05725 to apply it. NAPA sells all these products. Follow this up with your favorite Polish and then Wax.
Steve

Thanks, I'll check these out. Right now I have an appt. to have the car buffed out and waxed at a local paint guru. He has painted several cars for friends including an E-type, AC Aceca and aluminum Cobra replica. But when I mentioned taking off the lights and mirror, etc. to do a better job he said he would just tape those areas off. So now I'm not so sure about how much time he wants to spend on my baby and maybe I'll just do it myself. The PO did try to jack the car up in the middle and dented the bottom of the front trunk so I'm having the floor resprayed anyway (bare shiny metal doesn't turn me on, I can feel the rust wanting to come through).

So, do you then polish by hand and then wax by hand? Or have you gone completely electric? And what products are YOUR favorites (I know you've got some serious tangerine going on at your garage!). Phoenix Red is not that far off...

Thanks,

Paul

[Johny Blackstain]

I think you'll get a better shine going electric however I have to warn you this takes skill & practice, lots of practice. It is very easy to damage your paint w/ a buffer- get the edge too close to a vertical surface & you'll burn right through the paint, down to the metal. Or you can melt plastic & rubber. Doing it by hand is harder, more tedious & you can't move as fast as a wheel so your shine is not as deep. But it's also very hard to do any real damage that way, presuming of course you're doing everything right (clean car, towels, Q-tips, SHADE, etc...)


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[orthobiz]

I think you'll get a better shine going electric however I have to warn you this takes skill & practice, lots of practice. It is very easy to damage your paint w/ a buffer- get the edge too close to a vertical surface & you'll burn right through the paint, down to the metal.

I would hate to go through the paint! Looks like a major problem area would be on the front hood as it blends into the fenders, otherwise with the slab sided design the 914 looks like a good car to "start" on. I had experience using my Sears 9" orbital buffer in the 80's but I haven't done anything since.

Looking at Griot's Garage catalog, they talk about their multistep process as foolproof and imply that the novice could tackle an all original 550 Spyder...

Paul

[smg914]

I do my polish and wax by hand. P21 is great stuff and I like Meguiars and Mothers products too. Polish and Pure Carnauba Wax.

I have to disagree with Johny on the machine buffing. I'm telling you these new 3M Foam Polishing Pads are great. You would have to be pretty stupid to burn an edge with these. As long as you don't push hard and let it sit on an edge for any length of time it will not burn an edge. This process doesn't take any paint off the car.

[914-8]

for a local concours (including local pca concours) the most important thing for a beginner is removing dirt and dust from the commonly checked hard to reach places - door jambs, under the dash, seat rails, etc.

And making sure you don't leave stuff in the car and that it is properly configured to be scored - i.e., windows up, roof on, take out the aftermarket floor mats, make sure there is nothing in the ashtray, glovebox and storage compartments, etc.

polishing with an electric RANDOM ORBITAL polisher is fine and foolproof. It simply cannot generate enough heat or friction to damage your paint. Even if you apply pressure to it and keep it in one spot for a long time. A high speed direct drive polisher is a completely different story. You never need to use that, and that would be a mistake. The only time you really need that is after a colorsand. It would be a dumb and unnecessary move for a hobbiest to ever use a direct drive high speed polisher on his car paint, to simply polish or wax the car.

The griot's process is good and foolproof. You could duplicate it for cheaper, though. You can get the Porter Cable random orbital on sale usually for around $110-$120, through Lowes and other such places. I think Griot's charges $200+ for the same item. The griot's polishes and pads are good, but very similar to Meguire's. Although Griot's is more expensive, it is easier for a newbie because you buy the complete "package" ready to go, rather than having to figure out what to get.

With that kind of polisher system, you can do the entire car in a couple of hours, using first the light cleaner/polish and pad, followed by the wax.

[orthobiz]

polishing with an electric RANDOM ORBITAL polisher

So toss out the Sears ORBITAL buffer and get a RANDOM ORBITAL? Or are they the same thing?

Paul

[914-8]

Without seeing your sears, I don't really know what you have, but having seen various sears over the years, my guess is you'd be better off getting a Porter Cable. The stuff I've seen from sears is very "consumer" oriented and is really just for spreading basic wax on a surface. The McGuires and Griot's products are designed to work best with a certain style of random orbital, such as the porter cable.

You spend a lot of time polishing, and money on products, so it doesn't make sense, IMO, to skimp on the machine itself.

I got my Porter Cable PC7336 from Lowe's for $119. It's a bargain at that price.

Here's a good link about the Porter Cable and some other info.

http://www.roadfly.com/cars/aftermarket-pr...tal-buffer.html

[914-8]

There's a couple of things about his article. He mentions pads, I've had excellent results with Meguire's pads and products.

If your paint is in good condition, start with Meguire's #2 Professional Fine Cut Cleaner, applied with the Meguire's Yellow Pad. This is a very fine polish.

Then follow with your favorite wax (I like Meguire's 20), applied with the Meguire's Tan Pad.

That's it, easy, fast, foolproof and you get better results than you could ever get by hand, particularly on a black car that shows swirls easily.

[Johny Blackstain]

Actually, I agree w/ what's been said here. I have both kinds of polishers, random & "the grinder". Using the orbital it's pretty hard to damage paint with w/ the big puffy pad & lots of terrycloth bonnetts & the shine is to die for. However it does virtually nothing to an oxidized paint finish. Only the grinder gets flat, dull, single stage to shine again. I guess I screwed up & should have asked what the condition of your car was before saying anything.

I've never done a concours but I've been taking care of my cars since before they were mine & belonged to my Dad (truck & the LE). I've found that I'm lazy, but not so stupid anymore. This means I use the orbital on all the big flat spots & do everything else by hand. Nothing I have is oxidized so the grinder just sits now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .


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Edit- again I did not write things properly: an orbital will cut through single stage haze but you'll be there all day compared to a direct drive.

This post has been edited by Johny Blackstain: Jul 14 2007, 12:56 PM

[orthobiz]

You're right about Sears being the consumer product. It's a big fluffy plastic thing that looks like a ghost in PacMan. From looking at the Porter Cable product, the Sears is definitely NOT a random orbital buffer.

I don't think the paint is heavily oxidized on my car; the haze only shows up in fluorescent light or near dusk and it looks great overall in the bright sun, so I think I regular polishing will do.

We don't have a Lowe's in my town; Home Depot only had Sawzalls and Grinders and drills. We have a baby NAPA; they carried NO 3M products in stock.

OK, what about what Pat said about removing lights and door handles and mirror? Worthwhile? Do I tape exposed areas (like the light bulbs and backing)? What kind of tape?

Thanks again. I'm thinking of doing this on my own!

Paul

[Johny Blackstain]

OK, what about what Pat said about removing lights and door handles and mirror? Worthwhile? Do I tape exposed areas (like the light bulbs and backing)? What kind of tape?

Thanks again. I'm thinking of doing this on my own!

Paul

See if you can find something on line... type in random orbital buffer into Google & see what pops up. I have a Sears, but its going on 26yrs old now & they don't make them that good anymore.

Take off the mirror, it's easier than going around it or taping it off. I think lazy. Pop your engine lid, wrap some newspaper around it as best you can, close & the grill is now protected from wax. I never thought of using any peanut product on the grill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) . Probably best to remove the wipers as well. Disconnect your battery & pop up your headlights manually, (knob), & once they're up take off the shrouds around the headlights. If you have black sail trim tape it or take it off.

The targa top- reconditioned? Then wax it. If not, go get it reconditioned. Wax turns pure white on an old targa top. However now that I think about it peanut butter would probably be OK for the top (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) .

I have no fear of wax on rubber as you all know so do what you will w/ your bumper tops. Also realize that after you wax your car is covered in dust from the wax so it's time to wash again, ergo no insect or peanut smell problem from using peanut butter. Laugh all you want but plan on eating crow the 1st time you try it.


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BTW- this does not mean cover your rubber w/ wax... why would you do that? Just more work right? Think lazy!

[Pat Garvey]

OK, what about what Pat said about removing lights and door handles and mirror? Worthwhile? Do I tape exposed areas (like the light bulbs and backing)? What kind of tape?

Thanks again. I'm thinking of doing this on my own!

Paul

See if you can find something on line... type in random orbital buffer into Google & see what pops up. I have a Sears, but its going on 26yrs old now & they don't make them that good anymore.

Take off the mirror, it's easier than going around it or taping it off. I think lazy. Pop your engine lid, wrap some newspaper around it as best you can, close & the grill is now protected from wax. I never thought of using any peanut product on the grill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) . Probably best to remove the wipers as well. Disconnect your battery & pop up your headlights manually, (knob), & once they're up take off the shrouds around the headlights. If you have black sail trim tape it or take it off.

The targa top- reconditioned? Then wax it. If not, go get it reconditioned. Wax turns pure white on an old targa top. However now that I think about it peanut butter would probably be OK for the top (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) .

I have no fear of wax on rubber as you all know so do what you will w/ your bumper tops. Also realize that after you wax your car is covered in dust from the wax so it's time to wash again, ergo no insect or peanut smell problem from using peanut butter. Laugh all you want but plan on eating crow the 1st time you try it.


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BTW- this does not mean cover your rubber w/ wax... why would you do that? Just more work right? Think lazy!

Al, You are driving me so nuts with the p-butter thing, that I'm actually going to try it this week - on one spot. I don't recommend this for those who have allergies to peanuts, or any other land nuts!

But....please! DO NOT put any form of paste wax on your bumper pads. They ARE porous & will suck it in. In fact, NEVER put wax, in any form, on your bumper pads - NEVER, EVER!. Jeez! Youn know what these things cost to replace? Guess how much longer you'll even be able to find replacements. Just respect the ones you have. If you put WAX on them, even once, write them off. I've seen it a bunch of times - may as well paqint them white.

Ah, but I have a cure!!! I have the mystery potion!!!
Pat