Front end neg camber, how much have you got, how'd ya get it Options

[ottox914]

Looking for some inside secrets, black magic, motorhead mojo, on front end camber. I know our cars are a mixed bag in terms of what you can get in front. My '73 with the GPR/tarrott camber plates can get 2.4 neg on one side, only 1.8 on the other. The chassis measures out fine, no tweekage. It'd by nice to be able to equalize them both at around 2.5, or better still, 3.0, but how. I have no interest in taking this car to autocross nationals or get into hard core scca auto x stuff, just want to putter around and make a better local car, so bending the rules a little doesn't scare me, depending on how far the bend is.

So what do you all have, and how'd you get it?

Anyone use an aftermarket bolt on camberplate like all the little ricer guys run? I've never seen one for our cars, but they don't look hard to make. I was wondering if one could be designed to hold the top strut bearing up over the plate, thus allowing: 1) a little more strut travel on lowered cars, and 2) if the bearing is up over the adjustable top plate, the strut could maybe "tip" more to the inside, as the slim diameter of the strut rod would be smaller than the bearing or strut tube, and could be tilted in, closer to the edge of the factory hole.

I'm picturing something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Steeda-Cast...1QQcmdZViewItem

[nebreitling]

i got -3.2 LF and -3.5 RF when i had my car. could have used more. had to grind the strut mounting slots out, and had to slice the side of the strut plates off a fair amount. i actually didn't worry about getting them equal side to side. castor (and toe, obviously) is more important to have have equal, imho. my RF would lock up slightly before my LF, but most of our turns in NorCal are left.

this was on a lowered car, but it still had some good suspension travel left. (A arms parallel to ground). narrow bodied, 205/50's on 6.5" wide wheels.

they make camber plates (weltmeister, elephant, and others), but I prefered to just modify the stock ones. I also replaced the upper busings with monoballs.

[nebreitling]

oh, also look for the elephant decambered balljoints if you don't want to grind (check your rulebook).

[SirAndy]

i'm going back to 0 (yes, zero) camber front and rear.

them schlicks don't like negative camber ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy

[DanT]

i'm going back to 0 (yes, zero) camber front and rear.

them schlicks don't like negative camber ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy

Actually slicks like enough camber be it positive or negative to keep the tread temperatures equal across the face.
Depending on your suspension and the amount of suspension travel you have will determine how much negative or positive camber you need.
The only way you will find the optimum camber settings is to take lots of tire temps.
make adjustments and take more temps until the temps are equal across the tire face.

[ottox914]

Not running slicks (yet) so thats not a factor in the set up.

Saw those elephant decambered ball joints, but whoa, they don't give those away, do they...

I might look a little harder into more aggressive grinding of the camber plates I now have, or maybe selling them and hacking up the stock plates.

Nebreitling- did you get all that camber w/out missing w/the center holes? You say you had to cut the sides of the plates off a fair amount- how about the center of the plate, where your upper bushing mounts, need to grind/modify that at all? Any pics?

[Joe Ricard]

[
Actually slicks like enough camber be it positive or negative to keep the tread temperatures equal across the face.
Depending on your suspension and the amount of suspension travel you have will determine how much negative or positive camber you need.
The only way you will find the optimum camber settings is to take lots of tire temps.
make adjustments and take more temps until the temps are equal across the tire face.
[/quote]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
I am running -.5 up front and was running .-7 out back but may be less now that I upped the rear spring by another 100 pounds.

I use my tire pyrometer alot. Sometimes ask my competition if they would like to know what they got. Pretty interesting data.

OK back on topic. When I ran DOT-R tires I was able to get -2.8 on each side. by slotting holes and using Weltmiester camber plates and removing the cover from the shock piston. After -2 degrees it starts to hit the inner fender. Ride hieght is a big player in the amount of camber. might want to set your ride hieght dead nuts even all around then mess with camber.
If you have stock sway bars or stock torsion bars you probably have enough body roll that you are going to positive camber in a corner anyway.

[Borderline]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) I gotta get me some of that neg camber. I've only got -1.5 in the front! Has anyone modified the lower a-arms to get more camber? Seems like a little extra length would add some track width and camber.

[SirAndy]

Actually slicks like enough camber be it positive or negative to keep the tread temperatures equal across the face.
Depending on your suspension and the amount of suspension travel you have will determine how much negative or positive camber you need.
The only way you will find the optimum camber settings is to take lots of tire temps.
make adjustments and take more temps until the temps are equal across the tire face.

yes. but they generally don't like a very agressive setting like the ones suggested above.
i'm running -0.7 left/right right now and them schlicks only use the inner half of the patch.
tire-temps tell the same story.

regardless of your suspension setup, there is a certain range where your tire will work best,
and the goodyear R250 seem to like to be run with very little to no neg. camber.

brad told me -0.7 would be too much and he was right ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

[Chris Pincetich]

.... and removing the cover from the shock piston. After -2 degrees it starts to hit the inner fender.

Dude, good info! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Just to clarify, you are talkin about the "dust cover" that stays put up on top above the strut housing, right?
If you are still drivin all the time to races w/o the dust covers, it can't be too bad to remove them. I left them on thinkin that grime and stuff might harm my new KONIs, which cost more than my entire engine.

Otto or Bill - I have an extra set of stock camber plates (and struts, calipers...) that you could play with if you feel like. My alignment is being pushed back to August due to other delays (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mskala]

I'm also using the tarrett camber plate and got about 2.1 on each side. When I first put these in several years ago I thought it would improve grip a lot (I also did camber on rear) but for someone of my (lack of) skill it was not noticeable. But at least with victoracers I had then, the wear was much more even and helped them last longer.

[Downunderman]

Pull the 1.8 leg out, take out the insert, put in vise and heat and bend. You can calculate how much to give the same as the other side with the camber plate in the same position.

[Joe Ricard]

Yes you have a point about the shock covers up front. But I argue the point of not having shock covers on the rear.

HMMMM, kinda makes you wonder huh?

BTW I bought some spiffy covers to go over my new AFCO coil-overs. Nylon cover with velcro fasteners. But then again my coil-overs are inverted. (piston down).

[ottox914]

Pull the 1.8 leg out, take out the insert, put in vise and heat and bend. You can calculate how much to give the same as the other side with the camber plate in the same position.

Mr Man- I've heard of this, but can it really work? Would heating up the body of the shock cause problems with the oil/gas inside the shock? And wouldn't this just angle the rod up thru the threaded collar that secures the shock into the housing? Do you need to hog out the hole in the collar so the rod can come out at an angle of other than 90 degrees? I think I need a little more explaination on this one.

[Borderline]

Pull the 1.8 leg out, take out the insert, put in vise and heat and bend. You can calculate how much to give the same as the other side with the camber plate in the same position.

Ah DUMan: I'm afraid I don't understand what part you're bending. Are you bending the axle? If you bend the strut then the insert won't go back in.

A little more explanation for the mentally challenged please.

[Downunderman]

The further detail:

1 Remove the strut insert from the leg by undoing the round gland nut on the top.
2 Remove the brake caliper and hub.
3 Mount in vise by the leg below stub axle.
4 Heat the leg just above the stub axle, or as close to it as you can.
5 Put a big long tube over the top of the leg and heave gently. You need a fair bit of heat.
6 My recollection is if you move the leg by 2.6 mm measured 300mm above the stub axle that equates to approx 1 degree. You can measure it by clamping a straight edge on the caliper mount.
7 If using leg in race car its a good idea to gusset leg to stub axle so that it doesn't unbend.
8 Don't bend it too far without checking that the insert goes back in. There is a few mm clearance between the side of the insert and the inner wall of the leg.
9 Paint and re-install in car.

This was done to Boge 911 legs and it works.

Cheers,

[Borderline]

It's been a while since I put my konis in the struts, but IIRC they were a pretty snug fit. I would think that bending the strut tube would make assembly almost impossible.

[nebreitling]

Nebreitling- did you get all that camber w/out missing w/the center holes? You say you had to cut the sides of the plates off a fair amount- how about the center of the plate, where your upper bushing mounts, need to grind/modify that at all? Any pics?

i believe i do remember enlarging the "center hole" area. DID have to remove dust covers. once you have it apart and start grinding things out with a die grinder, you'll figure it out.

[Downunderman]

I should have mentioned that the inserts are Koni yellows, and there is enough clearance with the inner wall to get a couple of degrees. The insert is located only at the bottom of the leg and by the nut at the top.

[Borderline]

OK that splains it! I'll have to give it a try. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)